Obama Supports Transgender Rights In Health Care

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Edenthiel
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15 May 2016, 9:54 pm

nurseangela wrote:
Here is a government journal article saying that transgender surgery IS NOT the answer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/


And here is the head scientist of that study telling people to stop misrepresenting it.

http://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

That study was specific to Sweden only. It's purpose was to point out the dearth of almost complete lack of post-surgical care after GRS/SRS surgery in that nation and the effect it was having on trans people.

While trans people do have excessively high suicide rates pre-transition, post-surgery and barring bad treatment (harassment, rape, assault, public shaming) their rates return the same as the general population.


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15 May 2016, 10:02 pm

why can't people just let other people pee in peace? :scratch:



Edenthiel
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15 May 2016, 10:13 pm

auntblabby wrote:
why can't people just let other people pee in peace? :scratch:

Honestly? Because some people have a need to control others. That's what it all comes down to when you strip away labels like religion, politics, social hierarchy, and the rest. Trans people have been using bathrooms for as long as they've existed - that's documented as somewhere around 2500 years or so - and have not been the cause of trouble. They just want to live their lives, be happy and productive and maybe find love. Just like everyone else. For the most part they have always stayed under the radar out of fear, but also because for the most part they don't want attention. They just want to live their lives.


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15 May 2016, 10:21 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
why can't people just let other people pee in peace? :scratch:

Honestly? Because some people have a need to control others. That's what it all comes down to when you strip away labels like religion, politics, social hierarchy, and the rest. Trans people have been using bathrooms for as long as they've existed - that's documented as somewhere around 2500 years or so - and have not been the cause of trouble. They just want to live their lives, be happy and productive and maybe find love. Just like everyone else. For the most part they have always stayed under the radar out of fear, but also because for the most part they don't want attention. They just want to live their lives.

the attacks on transgendered folk's basic human right to pee in peace remind me a lot of Joseph Welch and the McCarthy hearings, when he had heard enough of tailgunner joe's stiff-armed calumny, and then finally said to him, "at long last, sir, have you no sense of decency?"



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15 May 2016, 11:04 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
why can't people just let other people pee in peace? :scratch:

Honestly? Because some people have a need to control others. That's what it all comes down to when you strip away labels like religion, politics, social hierarchy, and the rest. Trans people have been using bathrooms for as long as they've existed - that's documented as somewhere around 2500 years or so - and have not been the cause of trouble. They just want to live their lives, be happy and productive and maybe find love. Just like everyone else. For the most part they have always stayed under the radar out of fear, but also because for the most part they don't want attention. They just want to live their lives.


Personally, I've found LGBT issues to be very fascinating. I had a professor in college who was, um, how shall we say: very out there. Her area of expertise was gender issues and media representation and she had no problem speaking her mind-- in the most aggressive way possible. She was bisexual, but she had the "butch" style going. Needless to say she was reviled by most students and even a fair amount of other professors. Nothing she proposed, said, or did, effected other people in any way, yet they still loathed her-- and these are intelligent people I'm talking about. My takeaway from that was this: people are exceptionally paranoid about what they don't understand and they're unwilling to invest a single fragment of time trying to understand. That's where the need to control comes from: if one doesn't understand something they feel a loss of control, therefore they will try to establish control.

*I went to a very small liberal arts college of <3k students. To give you an idea of how "out there" my professor was: she was mentioned several times by Ann Coulter on national TV as a barometer of what's wrong with college. Of course Michelle (my teacher) took this as a badge of honor. I liked about every one of my teachers (knowledge addict), but Michelle was probably my favorite because she was smart as could be, a true fighter and scrapper, and pretty much respected everyone even through disagreement-- even when they didn't return that respect. I mean I saw those qualities, and that's all I need to know about her-- I could give a crap who she's attracted to or what sex she is/wants to be, etc. It's a very valuable lesson to learn that the actions and character of a person are what matters, everything else is just an outward illusion, and I'm very grateful she demonstrated that for me.



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16 May 2016, 12:17 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There are people who are literally caught in between, intersex people rarely get talked about the same way homosexuals and transgendered people and intersex people are people whose bodily autonomy was violated almost universally at one time and probably still is more times than not.

In our DNA you're either XX and XY(or some other rare combination but lets not get into that) which is determined at conception by the chromosome within the sperm cell being X or Y when it fertilizes the egg which carries an X chromosome, so to say we all start out as female makes it seem like you saying that one can either way from XY to XX or vice versa during development which would be completely wrong.


The X is not some magical chromosome; it's a small number of genes on it that trigger a sex-dimorphic body part (including 20+ in the brain, such as the location of your sense of Self, and the brains map of the body) to develop male or female (on a spectrum). One really important one is SRY. It is normally located on the X, but it can transpose leading to men who are XX. It can also be defective or simply missing, leading to XY women. And there are other genes that code for things like androgen receptors; if those are not perfect a person can be partially or totally immune to the effects of testosterone during fetal development; again, XY women. And even when the X gene is typical, just for it to signal a single body part in utero to develop in the 'male' direction it's a three step dance. SRY has to be expressed, then another gene that blocks it must be expressed, and then a third that blocks the second must also be correctly expressed, leading to the final expression of SRY to trigger that part to grow in the male shape. Usually the dance goes correctly. Usually...


Thank you for explaining the science I am not up on.


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16 May 2016, 12:18 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
There are people who are literally caught in between, intersex people rarely get talked about the same way homosexuals and transgendered people and intersex people are people whose bodily autonomy was violated almost universally at one time and probably still is more times than not.

In our DNA you're either XX and XY(or some other rare combination but lets not get into that) which is determined at conception by the chromosome within the sperm cell being X or Y when it fertilizes the egg which carries an X chromosome, so to say we all start out as female makes it seem like you saying that one can either way from XY to XX or vice versa during development which would be completely wrong.


The X is not some magical chromosome; it's a small number of genes on it that trigger a sex-dimorphic body part (including 20+ in the brain, such as the location of your sense of Self, and the brains map of the body) to develop male or female (on a spectrum). One really important one is SRY. It is normally located on the X, but it can transpose leading to men who are XX. It can also be defective or simply missing, leading to XY women. And there are other genes that code for things like androgen receptors; if those are not perfect a person can be partially or totally immune to the effects of testosterone during fetal development; again, XY women. And even when the X gene is typical, just for it to signal a single body part in utero to develop in the 'male' direction it's a three step dance. SRY has to be expressed, then another gene that blocks it must be expressed, and then a third that blocks the second must also be correctly expressed, leading to the final expression of SRY to trigger that part to grow in the male shape. Usually the dance goes correctly. Usually...


Thank you for explaining the science I am not up on.


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16 May 2016, 12:35 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
transgender surgery IS NOT the answer.

Here is "Corey" the trans girl in the NC trans-bathroom campaign.
http://www.revelist.com/viral/mom-of-tr ... asked/1916

If she was your trans daughter, would you want her to use the men's bathroom, and have to live with a penis all her life?

Image


I would wait until she was 18 and then surg would be her decision and I would expect her to pay for it.

ALSO, I'm a person too so I would like to feel comfortable in the WOMEN'S bathroom without having to worry about some man in the next stall trying to impersonate a woman just so he can gain access into the women's restroom. To be fair for all - build a damn third bathroom just for transgender then everyone should be happy.


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Last edited by nurseangela on 16 May 2016, 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

nurseangela
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16 May 2016, 12:49 am

Exhibit A

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/04/ ... -bathroom/


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16 May 2016, 1:03 am

Exhibit B

UNBELIEVABLE! I'm NEVER going to Target!

http://wncn.com/2016/04/27/man-records- ... -bathroom/


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16 May 2016, 1:07 am

We're kind of straying from the topic with the bathroom talk, we were talking about whether or not cosmetic surgeries should be mandated that they be covered which is something I disagree with on multiple levels. I'm skeptical that giving hormones of the opposite 'biological sex' to someone will result in a good outcome from a mental health perspective but that's a magnitude less than than amputating a healthy bodily organ which I don't think is covered in Obama's decree.

As for the bathroom, just use the bathroom of that will cause the least trouble. It really should be a utilitarian thing, going to the bathroom should not be a political statement or team activity. If you look like a woman then use the women's restroom, simple as that and no one should be the wiser if you are just there to do your business. I think new buildings probably should have more single use as well as family bathrooms to accommodate everyone.



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16 May 2016, 1:25 am

Jacoby wrote:
We're kind of straying from the topic with the bathroom talk, we were talking about whether or not cosmetic surgeries should be mandated that they be covered which is something I disagree with on multiple levels. I'm skeptical that giving hormones of the opposite 'biological sex' to someone will result in a good outcome from a mental health perspective but that's a magnitude less than than amputating a healthy bodily organ which I don't think is covered in Obama's decree.

As for the bathroom, just use the bathroom of that will cause the least trouble. It really should be a utilitarian thing, going to the bathroom should not be a political statement or team activity. If you look like a woman then use the women's restroom, simple as that and no one should be the wiser if you are just there to do your business. I think new buildings probably should have more single use as well as family bathrooms to accommodate everyone.


It all ties in because as*hole in the White House is trying to force NC to abide by these "restroom rules" or they will risk not getting federal funds. Now the government is encroaching on the rights of others and it's all so they can get votes.


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16 May 2016, 1:48 am

it's just election year desperation by the establishment looking for a distraction, the Democrats are not on the winning side of a lot of issues so they want to make the race all about identity politics any way they can. Trump wisely just sidestepped the whole thing, it was a trap. It's kind of like who Barack Obama suddenly saw the light about gay marriage when he was running for reelection in 2012 once public polling on the issue turned around.

Here's Barry in 2004 on gay marriage



here's Hillary too



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16 May 2016, 2:02 am

nurseangela wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
We're kind of straying from the topic with the bathroom talk, we were talking about whether or not cosmetic surgeries should be mandated that they be covered which is something I disagree with on multiple levels. I'm skeptical that giving hormones of the opposite 'biological sex' to someone will result in a good outcome from a mental health perspective but that's a magnitude less than than amputating a healthy bodily organ which I don't think is covered in Obama's decree.

As for the bathroom, just use the bathroom of that will cause the least trouble. It really should be a utilitarian thing, going to the bathroom should not be a political statement or team activity. If you look like a woman then use the women's restroom, simple as that and no one should be the wiser if you are just there to do your business. I think new buildings probably should have more single use as well as family bathrooms to accommodate everyone.


It all ties in because as*hole in the White House is trying to force NC to abide by these "restroom rules" or they will risk not getting federal funds. Now the government is encroaching on the rights of others and it's all so they can get votes.


This is exactly why I think ALL states should secede and make their own laws. Get government out entirely.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
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16 May 2016, 5:58 am

nurseangela wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
We're kind of straying from the topic with the bathroom talk, we were talking about whether or not cosmetic surgeries should be mandated that they be covered which is something I disagree with on multiple levels. I'm skeptical that giving hormones of the opposite 'biological sex' to someone will result in a good outcome from a mental health perspective but that's a magnitude less than than amputating a healthy bodily organ which I don't think is covered in Obama's decree.

As for the bathroom, just use the bathroom of that will cause the least trouble. It really should be a utilitarian thing, going to the bathroom should not be a political statement or team activity. If you look like a woman then use the women's restroom, simple as that and no one should be the wiser if you are just there to do your business. I think new buildings probably should have more single use as well as family bathrooms to accommodate everyone.


It all ties in because as*hole in the White House is trying to force NC to abide by these "restroom rules" or they will risk not getting federal funds. Now the government is encroaching on the rights of others and it's all so they can get votes.


This is exactly why I think ALL states should secede and make their own laws. Get government out entirely.


Without government stepping in to assure civil rights, there'd still be segregation.


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