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Why am I unattractive?

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rdos
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18 May 2016, 2:14 am

hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Ah, I actually took that to be a form of communication. He needs to keep looking after she looks away, to see if she looks back again because if she looks back again she has some interest in him.


He doesn't. You can do that without direct eye contact. Staring someone down is a dominance display. Also, the best way (as a guy) to keep out of trouble with gangs of young men is to avoid eye contact, because it is when these guys challenge you with that, and you show insecurity towards them, that things get dangerous. That's also a dominance game.

hurtloam wrote:
If he doesn't keep looking, he will have no idea whether she looked over at him again or not.


Hint: You do that by studying them in the corner of your eye.


Stupid captcha. My whole response was erased! My point was primarily we use our eyes to look at things that interest us. It's easier to see the subject if we directly look at said subject.


The captcha system is kind of bad, but I've noticed that if you do the captcha, and it doesn't indicate it was submitted, then you need to hit back twice to get to the entry again, and resubmit. This appears to always work, but it is highly user-unfriendly.

Yes, the primary use for our eyes is to look at interesting things, but flirting is a game, so it's not really rational.



rdos
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18 May 2016, 3:01 am

hurtloam wrote:
rdos wrote:
BTDT wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/men-like-the-idea-of-a-smart-woman-but-they-may-not-be-interested-in-dating-one_us_5627a564e4b02f6a900ed2aa

I thought I'd meet lots of people smarter than me when I went to a good school--didn't happen. 8O


Good point. This clearly shows that NT men do not particularly enjoy smart women, and that they challenge their maleness. Of course, this cannot be generalized to all men, and particularly not to ND men.


It's really not right to label NT men as being the sole test subjects of this study. You don't know whether Nd men are included. We are sometimes wandering into the realms of NT discrimination and generalising on this thread and that's really against the rules and also bigoted...


There quite likely were some ND men part of this study too, but since NTs are a huge majority, it's their traits that are reflected when a study uses a random selection from the general population. So any study that uses a random selection of participants will give you the NT-view of things. To get the ND preferences, you need to select ND people only and ask ND relevant questions.

hurtloam wrote:
I find the older men are more impressed by my intelligence.


That shouldn't surprise you. Older men no longer have strong urges to appear masculine, and they typically are in relationships too.

hurtloam wrote:
Why am I single...? All these men are married.


Right. Men that are married don't need to be worried about their masculinity, and additionally, they probably interact with you as friends and not potential romantic partners.



Alliekit
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18 May 2016, 5:31 am

rdos wrote:
sly279 wrote:
But if she's not interested then she'll be creeped out and look over again to see if the creep is still looking at her.


Before she does that she will have told her friends about you, and then there is quite likely some giggling going on, and if you notice that, you just back out of it. Because if it is genuine interest, then she won't discuss it with her friends (at least not while you are there). Also, if she is alone, she is not likely to look back again if she thinks you are a creep.

It's not enough to only learn the signs, you need to put them into context too. If they giggle and discuss you, then you know you should back-out, no matter what. Serious girl-talk about a guy never goes on while the guy is there. This only happens if they are creeped out.


No its not! If they are creeper out they will wish per amping themselves not giggle. If it's genuine interest of course she is going to tell her friends it's what women do.

You are backing out of situations where women may be interested



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18 May 2016, 6:29 am

I dunno, it depends on the circumstances. Nudging,, pointing and giggles could definitely be, "look at that weirdo"



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18 May 2016, 6:31 am

What happened to the Op? You see this is why I think Wrong planet is full of sock puppet accounts.



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18 May 2016, 6:35 am

Op started account almost 2 years ago and only has about 25 posts = inactive user.



rdos
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18 May 2016, 6:38 am

Alliekit wrote:
No its not! If they are creeper out they will wish per amping themselves not giggle.


Not sure what that is. Could you elaborate?

Alliekit wrote:
If it's genuine interest of course she is going to tell her friends it's what women do.


Not my experience with ND girls at least. When they start talking to each others in a noticable way, it's always bad news. Sure, they may make some very subtle hints to their friends, but not any more than that. The real talk happens after they leave and the guy is out-of-sight.

Alliekit wrote:
You are backing out of situations where women may be interested


Possibly NTs then.



Alliekit
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18 May 2016, 11:34 am

rdos wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
No its not! If they are creeper out they will wish per amping themselves not giggle.


Not sure what that is. Could you elaborate?

Alliekit wrote:
If it's genuine interest of course she is going to tell her friends it's what women do.


Not my experience with ND girls at least. When they start talking to each others in a noticable way, it's always bad news. Sure, they may make some very subtle hints to their friends, but not any more than that. The real talk happens after they leave and the guy is out-of-sight.

Alliekit wrote:
You are backing out of situations where women may be interested


Possibly NTs then.


Giggling is excitement that someone's checking you out. Certainly when I'm out woth the girls if guys are checking us out we giggle amongst ourselves

If someone being creepyyou glare and them and whisper about how creepy they are being. Or just avoiding looking at them or.

My friends and I speak about guys checking us out all the time. May i ask the you please don't speak for all women especially when you are not one?



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18 May 2016, 1:15 pm

rdos wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Intelligence, assertiveness, creativity, flexibility.

I'm a sapiosexual. I get turned on by intelligence.

One time, I became sexually excited through a woman talking about macroeconomics.

Another time, I found it hot when I saw Condoleeza Rice playing the piano.


You are not NT, so you cannot say which preferences are typical of NTs based on your own preferences.

Also, assertiveness in women is clearly not a NT preference. Just look at the link hurtloam presented before which claimed that NT women wanted men to keep eye-contact longer than them, which is a sign of NT women being less assertive than NT men, and that they even have this built-in to their nonverbal communication.

I also prefer women that are smart and creative, but I'm not NT either, so it doesn't mean NTs work like that.


Sorry, where was the link for eye contact? I could see that being true for flirting scenarios in general, is not looking down and away a global flirting sign? For instance, looking down and breaking eye contact is what I did the -only- time I've ever recalled being turned on by a woman. She oozed domme to me; she creeped out my fellow employee something bad.
At the same time though, I would not choose to be with a person who I didn't think was at least as intelligent as me. What I like in the bedroom isn't what I like in my life. So I think when and where the eye contact thing comes into play is very important.


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cavernio
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18 May 2016, 1:27 pm

"Right. Men that are married...probably interact with you as friends and not potential romantic partners."

If I'm in search for a serious romantic relationship, this is what I need, the interacting as friends bit. Lasting romance can't exist without friendship.



I'm one of those people who seems always be in relationships who doesn't mean plenty of looks criteria much of the time, I'm sure. This isn't necessarily a good thing though; who's to say that I'm better off than all you single folk if I'm simply doing the wrong thing for myself over and over?


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rdos
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18 May 2016, 2:23 pm

Alliekit wrote:
Giggling is excitement that someone's checking you out.


Yes, but a girl telling all her friends that I'm checking her out, and even giggling about it, is a huge turn-off. It shows she cannot keep a secret

Alliekit wrote:
Certainly when I'm out woth the girls if guys are checking us out we giggle amongst ourselves


That very rarely happens when I flirt with girls. Could be that I'm a lot more discreet and indirect than the guys you talk about.

In most of the more long term interactions I've had with girls, like in school, nobody except a few very close friends of them new we had in interest in each others. I even met some of these close friends in the company of other people, and they wouldn't even tell them they knew me.



Last edited by rdos on 18 May 2016, 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rdos
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18 May 2016, 2:32 pm

cavernio wrote:
If I'm in search for a serious romantic relationship, this is what I need, the interacting as friends bit. Lasting romance can't exist without friendship.


Yes, a successful long-term partner typically is also a friend, but for me romance never comes from friendship alone.



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18 May 2016, 5:36 pm

Outrider wrote:
Op started account almost 2 years ago and only has about 25 posts = inactive user.
The timestamp says she started this post on May 14, 2016. whixh is about 4 days ago.


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18 May 2016, 6:27 pm

rdos wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
NT men aren't these big mean guys who only value sex and apperance. They too appreciate itelligence and creativity much like ND men. Alot of then are annoyed by women who dumb themselves down.


Sure, NT men do value some kinds of smartness in women, namely social smartness, but they don't value the nerdy-type of smartness a lot. Some NT women value nerdiness in men, but that is mostly because these traits can build careers, and thus are predictors of high status and income.


There are to NT men who value the nerdy type of smartness, pretty sure my boyfriend is one of them...he's a bit of a nerd himself. Perhaps most average NT men don't value that....but most of society doesn't seem to value that outside of if it helps them achieve a successful career anyways. There are both ND and NT individuals who don't fit in with the norms/averages there are less of those than ones who do follow the norms but its not particularly an NT vs. ND issue.


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18 May 2016, 7:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
rdos wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
NT men aren't these big mean guys who only value sex and apperance. They too appreciate itelligence and creativity much like ND men. Alot of then are annoyed by women who dumb themselves down.


Sure, NT men do value some kinds of smartness in women, namely social smartness, but they don't value the nerdy-type of smartness a lot. Some NT women value nerdiness in men, but that is mostly because these traits can build careers, and thus are predictors of high status and income.


There are to NT men who value the nerdy type of smartness, pretty sure my boyfriend is one of them...he's a bit of a nerd himself. Perhaps most average NT men don't value that....but most of society doesn't seem to value that outside of if it helps them achieve a successful career anyways. There are both ND and NT individuals who don't fit in with the norms/averages there are less of those than ones who do follow the norms but its not particularly an NT vs. ND issue.


^ completely agree! My boyfriend is NT and intelligence is the main thing he is attracted to



rdos
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19 May 2016, 1:50 am

Alliekit wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
rdos wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
NT men aren't these big mean guys who only value sex and apperance. They too appreciate itelligence and creativity much like ND men. Alot of then are annoyed by women who dumb themselves down.


Sure, NT men do value some kinds of smartness in women, namely social smartness, but they don't value the nerdy-type of smartness a lot. Some NT women value nerdiness in men, but that is mostly because these traits can build careers, and thus are predictors of high status and income.


There are to NT men who value the nerdy type of smartness, pretty sure my boyfriend is one of them...he's a bit of a nerd himself. Perhaps most average NT men don't value that....but most of society doesn't seem to value that outside of if it helps them achieve a successful career anyways. There are both ND and NT individuals who don't fit in with the norms/averages there are less of those than ones who do follow the norms but its not particularly an NT vs. ND issue.


^ completely agree! My boyfriend is NT and intelligence is the main thing he is attracted to


I wouldn't be so sure any of them are NT. You are not NT just because you lack an ASD diagnosis. You are NT based on traits, and your guys already show they have some ND traits by being attracted to intelligence and being nerdy. :mrgreen: