What Do You Think About Protecting Own Language From ...

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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25 Apr 2021, 4:47 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
What do you think about protecting own language from foreign influence?
Do you think that the law on protect national languages from the influence of other languages, eg. English, Russian, German etc ?


My own language, English, is such a mongrelized mishmash at this point that having that kind of law applied to it would be downright farcical because the legal language of that law would itself be full of loan words.

I don't know enough about anyone else's language and society to pass judgement on their situation with such laws.

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I am a Polish, and a student of library science

Cool.
Library sciences, and archives, have always been a minor interest but my brain wasn't cut out for taking that path.
And if I was healthy enough to travel internationally it would be fun to visit Poland's preserved railways.

:arrow: Related thought, and then what do you do about the changing meanings and usages of words within your language?
I don't know about other languages but ours does that a lot.
If you haven't read it already, Pawelk, this might be of interest,

Words on the Move
Why English Won't - and Can't - Sit Still (Like, Literally)
John McWhorter

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250143785


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Erewhon
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27 Apr 2021, 1:53 am

Yankees :arrow: Jan Kees :)

Dat dollar een afgeleide van daalder is wist ik al een tijdje. Zojuist las ik waar de term Yankees vandaan komt, het is een verbastering van de namen Jan & Kees. Oorspronkelijk was het een scheldwoord heb ik begrepen, maar tegenwoordig word het als geuzennaam gebruikt.

Lockdown

"We zitten nog een paar weken in lockdown" aldus mijn moeder :) . Mijn moeder is bijna 80 jaar, en gebruikte het woord lockdown op een manier zodat het een nederlandse betekenis heeft. In een hele korte tijd, het corona-jaar is het woord zo ingeburgerd en algemeen taalgebruik is geworden.

Überhaupt
Sowieso
An sich


Enkele termen die zijn oorsprong in het duits hebben, maar zo mainstream zijn dat ze ook een nederlandse betekenis hebben gekregen.

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naturalplastic
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27 Apr 2021, 2:58 am

Protecting English from foreign influence is my cause celeb!


All foreign words should be verboten, and made to vamos from English! :D



Erewhon
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30 May 2021, 5:48 am

"Online"

Toen ik in het jaar 158 na Darwin werd geboren bestond het woordje online nog niet. Althans, het was niet gangbaar in het Nederlandstalig gebied. De was die op een wasdraad buiten met een zonnige dag staat te wapperen, en te drogen zou je ook 'online' kunnen noemen :) . Met wat wind kun je vliegeren, een vlieger heeft ook iets weg van online-zijn.
Heden ten dagen is de term online voor op internet zijn zo ingeburgerd dat helemaal geen engels meer is. Het is een soort van vlees-geworden woord in het Nederlandstalig gebied. Kun je met het woord online nog wel spreken van dat het een engelstalig woord is :?: Van oorsprong wel, maar momenteel niet meer. Het is een woord wat ik niet meer hoef te "converteren" in mijn schedel.

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cyberdad
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30 May 2021, 6:00 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
What do you think about protecting own language from foreign influence?
Do you think that the law on protect national languages from the influence of other languages, eg. English, Russian, German etc ?


My own language, English, is such a mongrelized mishmash at this point that having that kind of law applied to it would be downright farcical because the legal language of that law would itself be full of loan words.


English has been relatively stable for 500 years. I live in Australia. There's no hope of any foreign language being heard on mainstream television or radio



naturalplastic
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30 May 2021, 10:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
What do you think about protecting own language from foreign influence?
Do you think that the law on protect national languages from the influence of other languages, eg. English, Russian, German etc ?


My own language, English, is such a mongrelized mishmash at this point that having that kind of law applied to it would be downright farcical because the legal language of that law would itself be full of loan words.


English has been relatively stable for 500 years. I live in Australia. There's no hope of any foreign language being heard on mainstream television or radio

But she is right that enacting a law protecting English would be self contradictory because virtually all words in English that have to do with jurisprudence (French) are either loanwords from French (legacy of the Norman Conquest of 1066), or are borrowed from Latin. So any such law would of necessity violate itself. :lol:



cyberdad
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31 May 2021, 1:40 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
What do you think about protecting own language from foreign influence?
Do you think that the law on protect national languages from the influence of other languages, eg. English, Russian, German etc ?


My own language, English, is such a mongrelized mishmash at this point that having that kind of law applied to it would be downright farcical because the legal language of that law would itself be full of loan words.


English has been relatively stable for 500 years. I live in Australia. There's no hope of any foreign language being heard on mainstream television or radio

But she is right that enacting a law protecting English would be self contradictory because virtually all words in English that have to do with jurisprudence (French) are either loanwords from French (legacy of the Norman Conquest of 1066), or are borrowed from Latin. So any such law would of necessity violate itself. :lol:


It would certainly open years of litigation over what duration of time constitutes incorporated language given nobody except linguists and enthusiasts can understand (let alone speak) Auld Englisc



naturalplastic
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31 May 2021, 4:23 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
What do you think about protecting own language from foreign influence?
Do you think that the law on protect national languages from the influence of other languages, eg. English, Russian, German etc ?


My own language, English, is such a mongrelized mishmash at this point that having that kind of law applied to it would be downright farcical because the legal language of that law would itself be full of loan words.


English has been relatively stable for 500 years. I live in Australia. There's no hope of any foreign language being heard on mainstream television or radio

But she is right that enacting a law protecting English would be self contradictory because virtually all words in English that have to do with jurisprudence (French) are either loanwords from French (legacy of the Norman Conquest of 1066), or are borrowed from Latin. So any such law would of necessity violate itself. :lol:


It would certainly open years of litigation over what duration of time constitutes incorporated language given nobody except linguists and enthusiasts can understand (let alone speak) Auld Englisc


Doesnt matter. You can set some historical cutoff at, say the end of Middle English, and the start of Early Modern English (around 1600 when Shakespeare was writing, and when they compiled the King James Bible)as being "when the language started". And though english has been stable in general structure since then - it got most of its foreign loanwords AFTER that time.

For example if you had language protectionist laws you wouldnt be able to use words like "bungalow", "pajamas","jungle", or"bandana", because they all came from Asian Indian languages, and would have to concoct anglo saxon equivalent terms. Thats the kind of logic some "language protectionists" use. French dont want their countrymen to use terms like "bestseller" for example.

Even within a language there is dialect protectionism. In the Fifties the BBC wouldnt allow you to use "Americanisms" like the term "deejay". You had to call them "record players, and commentators". But then the Payola Scandal became big news, and it got too cumbersome to use that long phrase so the BBC caved and admitted that "terms like 'deejay', and 'payola' are unavoidable Americanisms".



cyberdad
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31 May 2021, 9:26 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Even within a language there is dialect protectionism. In the Fifties the BBC wouldnt allow you to use "Americanisms" like the term "deejay". You had to call them "record players, and commentators". But then the Payola Scandal became big news, and it got too cumbersome to use that long phrase so the BBC caved and admitted that "terms like 'deejay', and 'payola' are unavoidable Americanisms".


A lot of these ideas are historical but no longer relevant. In the Australian Broadcasting Commission (ABC) and in Universities in Australia there was a requirement that all newsreaders and lecturers must be educated in England as recently as the early 1960s. The Australian accent/vernacular was (ironically) considered too unrefined to be used in broadcasting and in teaching,



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01 Jun 2021, 12:03 pm

αυτισμός :wink:

Hét grote gemene deler woord op dit forum heeft het Grieks als bron/oorsprong. Het woord wordt weliswaar anders geschreven in andere talen dan de taal waar het uit is ontstaan, maar de moeder van het woord komt uit het Grieks. Toch merkwaardig, dingen die zo 'eigen' lijken te zijn zijn helemaal niet zo 'eigen' als ik er wat dieper over na ga denken.

Kalispera aan iedereen op deze website. :)

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JustFoundHere
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02 Aug 2021, 6:04 pm

248RPA wrote:
My Spanish teacher says that no language has rules. It's just that people force rules upon a language to make it easier for foreigners to learn. When people speak in the real world, most of the time they're not going to think about rules, or if they should use a word from their own language or a different language. They just get their point across.

As much as I would like to see languages being kept pure, I think it would be a lost cause.


Especially with the pace of change, and worldwide communications TECH., it's not necessary to judge languages by such criteria as purity.

The English language incorporates foreign words which are ripe for increasingly wider usage.



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10 Jan 2022, 10:59 am

Being French Canadian, living in (Québec, Canada), there are many laws for the French language to be the main one used, mostly for businesses. They call it the Loi 101. (law 101 I would guess). To keep the French language as the native tongue. Honestly, in North America, there is not a lot of French going on. lol I understand the use of this law, but of course it can get a bit extreme at times, toward the English community and, for instance minorities.



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10 Jan 2022, 6:17 pm

While the conservation of native languages on earth will continue into the foreseeable future, there is an issue about what language will be spoken in space??

With the likely establishment of permanent settlements/bases on the moon and mars over the next century, the likely source of settlers will inevitably be from English speaking countries.

The language of space (and ultimately the future of humanity) as earth becomes unliveable will inevitably be English.

A thousand years from now a version of English will be spoken throughout the galaxy.



naturalplastic
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12 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm

The language used the world over for air traffic control is English.

So its likely that if we do start having traffic even higher up (in space) that the same industry using the same language would expand into space.

I suspect that the space race will be revived sometime in the coming decades, and there may be actual settlements in space in the 21st century. The original space race was between the US and the USSR in the 1960s. The coming race will be dominated by Asian countries. Namely China and India. With the EU and the US being less ambitious in the rear guard, but still major players. India is a former British Empire country with a huge English proficient population. So the combined influence of the US and (strange as this prediction may sound) India will further force the world to keep English as the lingua franca of outer space.



cyberdad
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12 Jan 2022, 11:16 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The language used the world over for air traffic control is English.

So its likely that if we do start having traffic even higher up (in space) that the same industry using the same language would expand into space.

I suspect that the space race will be revived sometime in the coming decades, and there may be actual settlements in space in the 21st century. The original space race was between the US and the USSR in the 1960s. The coming race will be dominated by Asian countries. Namely China and India. With the EU and the US being less ambitious in the rear guard, but still major players. India is a former British Empire country with a huge English proficient population. So the combined influence of the US and (strange as this prediction may sound) India will further force the world to keep English as the lingua franca of outer space.


This makes sense, the Chinese and Russians don't have the resources to set up permanent bases on their own and if they collaborate with other space agencies they will only be allowed to send a handful of settlers/astronauts so at the very least they will have to be bilingual in English to survive out in space.



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13 Jan 2022, 6:00 am

"eigen" :?:

Er is geen 'eigen taal', talen zijn op een of andere manier verbonden met elkaar. Er zijn uitzonderingen, maar in de talen van het alfabet is het pre definitie een overlap. Is ook logisch, want ze zijn ook ontstaan door elkaar.

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Van de 7 miljard homo-sapiens zijn er heel veel die het woord robot gebruiken, best wel grappig eigenlijk. :)

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