Why is it so hard being conservative anywhere?

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Barchan
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15 Jun 2016, 10:27 pm

Mikah wrote:
I'd be happier with an absolute dictator, at least you can kill a dictator.

No, you wouldn't.

Take it from someone who's lived under one, dictators suck.



Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 11:57 pm

Mikah wrote:
Googled it, seems to be fairly diverse label, any particular strain you are referring to? I'm certainly not a mainstream "conservative".


Oh, the racist, misogynistic, anti-democratic kind.


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Mikah
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16 Jun 2016, 9:13 am

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dictators suck.


Well so does democracy, it wasn't a flippant comment about living in a dictatorship, you cannot kill a political party, or an infectious idea, they must kill themselves, perhaps taking society with them, or as seems more likely in the West right now sparking what might become the Worst. Genocide. Ever. Think of me when the proverbial Serbs come for you dear Barchan.

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Oh, the racist, misogynistic, anti-democratic kind.


Anti-democratic certainly, racist and misogynistic are terms so abused it's hard to tell. I am against mass immigration and that makes me a racist in some eyes. I believe the sexes are different and that makes me a sexist in some eyes, which is the same thing as woman-hating I am told.


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16 Jun 2016, 11:02 am

Mikah wrote:
Quote:
dictators suck.


Well so does democracy, it wasn't a flippant comment about living in a dictatorship, you cannot kill a political party, or an infectious idea, they must kill themselves, perhaps taking society with them, or as seems more likely in the West right now sparking what might become the Worst. Genocide. Ever. Think of me when the proverbial Serbs come for you dear Barchan.

Quote:
Oh, the racist, misogynistic, anti-democratic kind.


Anti-democratic certainly, racist and misogynistic are terms so abused it's hard to tell. I am against mass immigration and that makes me a racist in some eyes. I believe the sexes are different and that makes me a sexist in some eyes, which is the same thing as woman-hating I am told.


Well, most of us prefer democracy and equality.


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Barchan
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16 Jun 2016, 11:41 am

Mikah wrote:
Well so does democracy, it wasn't a flippant comment about living in a dictatorship, you cannot kill a political party, or an infectious idea, they must kill themselves, perhaps taking society with them, or as seems more likely in the West right now sparking what might become the Worst. Genocide. Ever. Think of me when the proverbial Serbs come for you dear Barchan.

It almost sounds like you're hoping that will happen.



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16 Jun 2016, 12:12 pm

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Well, most of us prefer democracy and equality.


The popularity of something has no bearing on it's goodness or truth, that is the fundamental flaw of democracy.

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It almost sounds like you're hoping that will happen.


I do want a return to nationalist monocultures, but this is certainly not how I want it to happen.


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GhostsInTheWallpaper
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20 Jun 2016, 1:01 pm

Mikah wrote:
I believe the sexes are different and that makes me a sexist in some eyes, which is the same thing as woman-hating I am told.


Well, I think it's SJW stereotyping that gender essentialists are always also sexists and misogynists. Here's where I'd draw the line between the three, personally:

Gender Essentialism: the belief that the sexes have major psychological differences attributable primarily to nature (genetics) rather than nurture (culture). If you believe the sexes are psychologically very different but are mostly made that way by culture, then you are not a gender essentialist. The physical differences, which are obvious, don't count here.

Sexism: Acting on the notion that gender stereotypes are true, therefore judging people's abilities or interpreting their behavior according to these stereotypes. You can be a gender essentialist but not a sexist if you treat everyone as a possible exception to the stereotypes unless proven to fit the stereotypes. (For instance, some gender essentialists might consider LGBTs to be born psychologically androgynous or more similar to the other sex, and you cannot necessarily tell if someone is LGBT just by looking at them, especially if they are not "out." So they might reserve judgment.) You can be sexist but not a gender essentialist if you believe the stereotypes are usually true and act on that basis, but believe that they're true because of how people are raised and not born.

Misogyny: While some might prefer to reserve this term for those who commit violence against women, like wife beaters and rapists, there is a greater cultural misogyny that provides the ready excuses for people to commit this kind of violence: the notion that women are inferior to men overall or that femininity is inferior to masculinity overall. An example of this in everyday life that doesn't constitute blatant violence is insulting men by referring to them as women, female animals, or female body parts, and also insulting women by referring to them as female animals or female body parts. These insults don't work without the implicit assumption that it's bad to be female.

You cannot be misogynist without also being sexist, because nobody would think women or femininity inferior without believing the stereotypes, and most especially "negative" stereotypes about women. But you can be sexist (and even gender essentialist) without being misogynist if you believe that certain stereotypes about men and women are true, but that doesn't mean that femininity is lesser than masculinity, and therefore you might think, for instance, that traditionally feminine jobs like schoolteaching and nursing should be given similar social status and pay to traditionally masculine jobs such as construction work or technology. You might also think, for example, that the physical strength of men is balanced by the social strength of women. Certain camps of "difference feminism" might qualify as gender essentialist and sexist, but not misogynist. It's also possible to be misogynist and sexist without being a gender essentialist, if you happen to think that women suck but it's because they were raised that way. (Though I can't think of anyone personally who has this belief set.)

You can also be a little misogynist, in the everyday sense, without intending any direct harm or without committing violence against women, simply because you never challenged the notion that femininity is worse than masculinity, which is widespread in mainstream culture.

Yes, women can be (internalized) misogynists too, if we buy into the notion that femininity sucks or insult people by calling them, say, female dogs or female genitalia when they don't display gender-appropriate emotions in public.

So being gender essentialist doesn't necessarily make you misogynist or even sexist, depending on how you approach people and your personal valuation of masculinity and femininity. But being misogynist definitely means you're sexist, and a lot of sexists are also gender essentialists. I would say that's because people are less likely to act on the assumption that gender stereotypes are true of most or all people they meet if they think that it all depends on how they're raised, and they know that they don't know much of anything about how the person in question was raised until they get to know the person.