I am for the legalization of Mary Jane nationwide!

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KagamineLen
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17 Jun 2016, 6:50 pm

Primarily because the current laws are used as an excuse to give minorities very long prison sentences over minor possession offenses.

Besides, weed is a gateway to the spirit - and it is patently illegal in most states. Alcohol destroys the spirit - and it is culturally accepted in the USA.

Most of your favorite musicians and artists approve of this message. OK, perhaps I made up that sentence..... because my favorite musicians include Dave Matthews and Dr Dre.

In any case, I am not a Habitual stoner. I just really dislike how skewed the enforcement statistics are when it comes to marijuana offenses and ethnicity. That is all.



kraftiekortie
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17 Jun 2016, 7:45 pm

I can't stand the smell of pot, frankly.

Here in NYC, it's decriminalized for amounts less than an ounce.

Cops do use the loophole, however, that the pot is in "open view" if they want to arrest someone. Pot in "open view," no matter what the amount, is a misdemeanor.

I wouldn't care too much if they legalized pot here.



Kraichgauer
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17 Jun 2016, 7:51 pm

We've already got legalized pot here in Washington state, but I wouldn't mind seeing it go nation wide.


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pineapplehead
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17 Jun 2016, 9:13 pm

I just want my medical cocaine, damn it! It's good for you, because it's natural and, like, comes from the, like, ground, man.

KagamineLen wrote:
Alcohol destroys the spirit


Speak for yourself. Alcohol resonates my spiritual oneness and brings me closer to Gaia and all of her wisdom.... man.



DataB4
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17 Jun 2016, 10:08 pm

I think we'd save time, money, and law enforcement resources by decriminalizing marijuana, which might indirectly save lives. Not to mention the side effects of using marijuana laced with other substances. The only counterarguments I've ever heard that make sense are:
1. Decriminalization might increase marijuana use, which might have negative consequences that justify keeping it illegal.

2. You won't decrease gang activity because the gangs/cartels will move on to something else on the black market.

That's it. Am I missing any?

The problem with these is that I have no idea how to argue against them. I know that the burden of proof is technically on whoever presents the increased use/negative consequences argument though. Now that some states are decriminalizing it, we'll find out what actually happens, bringing some facts into an opinion-based discussion.



CommanderKeen
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17 Jun 2016, 10:36 pm

Industrial hemp should be legalized as well. It'll solve our reliance on foreign fuel. If the government wanted our to have an energy source worth a damn, they would push for industrial hemp.



Misslizard
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17 Jun 2016, 11:04 pm

Canaries that are fed hemp seed sing more. :flower:
Truly a miracle plant good for man or beast.


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Fogman
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18 Jun 2016, 4:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I can't stand the smell of pot, frankly.

Here in NYC, it's decriminalized for amounts less than an ounce.

Cops do use the loophole, however, that the pot is in "open view" if they want to arrest someone. Pot in "open view," no matter what the amount, is a misdemeanor.

I wouldn't care too much if they legalized pot here.


Agreed about thee smell, even though I used to smoke the stuff many years ago.

I was in Maine when they legalised the Rx pot, and I thought that was a good thing. What I would like to see though, if it becomes fully legalised, is for the price on it to drop to little more that what you'd spend for a pack of cigarettes for an equivalent amount of pot, which would completely remove the cartels from selling it.


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beakybird
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18 Jun 2016, 9:19 am

Even if legalized pot led to more usage, you can't assume that's automatically a bad thing. If it comes at the expense of alcohol use, which it will cut into, it's a net gain when looked at in combination of monies gained from taxation, saved on enforcement, and jobs created in a new booming industry. If weed goes full legal, weed tourism would increase as people would come from all over to smoke weed here legally.

Unless you're still stuck in Refer Madness thinking, there's little justification for being against it unless you are religious. At which point I respect that right.

Facts are we don't know enough about it either way in controlled medical studies. However anecdotally, most people who smoke pot into their adulthood turn out to be non-criminal and most keep to themselves.



DataB4
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18 Jun 2016, 10:00 am

Some people waste their lives away smoking pot, while others waste their lives away on other things. Still others are responsible with it. I haven't seen any evidence that pot is any worse of a vice than all the other pleasures that we respect people's rights to indulge in. I've heard of pot addiction, but alcoholism seems way more common. I never considered the possibility that marijuana use might decrease alcohol use.

I've rarely heard arguments against pot because someone is religious. What do they say? The only one I've heard is the Mormons and the, can't think which group of Christians right now, who are against "harmful substances."



gingerpickles
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18 Jun 2016, 12:29 pm

Nope, not a supporter. Because people in general are stupid. We haven't dona a bang up job with tobacco and alcohol legal, why add yet another society burdening vice? and it will end up burdening society.

I definitely say let a few states be the guinea pigs for a 15 year study and if it all looks Grreat? have votes again for nationwide ban lift


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DataB4
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18 Jun 2016, 12:34 pm

Then you support states' rights? That makes sense, as none of the substances you mentioned are civil rights.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jun 2016, 2:18 pm

beakybird wrote:
Even if legalized pot led to more usage, you can't assume that's automatically a bad thing. If it comes at the expense of alcohol use, which it will cut into, it's a net gain when looked at in combination of monies gained from taxation, saved on enforcement, and jobs created in a new booming industry. If weed goes full legal, weed tourism would increase as people would come from all over to smoke weed here legally.

Unless you're still stuck in Refer Madness thinking, there's little justification for being against it unless you are religious. At which point I respect that right.

Facts are we don't know enough about it either way in controlled medical studies. However anecdotally, most people who smoke pot into their adulthood turn out to be non-criminal and most keep to themselves.


Way too many people actually are still stuck in "Reefer Madness thinking" about legalized pot.


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18 Jun 2016, 2:42 pm

Just to illustrate how much out of sync many law enforcement agencies are wrt. cannabis:

Here is the conclusion from a very recent scientific review in the highly prestigious Nature journal (my emphasis added):

Curran et al. (2016 wrote:
With hindsight, we can clearly see the enormous problems that have been caused to many individuals and to society by tobacco and alcohol. Unlike cannabis, these drugs are legal in most countries, despite the fact that, if asked to decide today which psychoactive drugs should be legal, cannabis (which rarely kills people) might well be judged as being comparatively benign.

Legislative changes would help researchers, as current restrictive drug scheduling markedly hinders neuroscience research and the innovation of psychiatric treatments. More importantly, if handled carefully from a harm‑reduction standpoint, a regulated market might increase the control over the age of initiation of use and other vulnerability factors; inform accurately about dosage; and increase the availability of more‑balanced cannabis (that is, with lower levels of Δ9‑THC and higher levels of CBD) to maintain desired effects while reducing the incidence of harms.


Source:
Curran, H. Valerie, et al. "Keep off the grass? Cannabis, cognition and addiction." Nature Reviews Neuroscience 17.5 (2016): 293-306.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/To ... 936ee8.pdf (see page 11)

Oh, and....

They way I see it, the two most harmful effects of cannabis are:

- The fact that it is widely illegal... (because it generates crime)
- The fact that people *smoke* it... (because inhaling particles into your lungs is bad regardless of origin)

Solution: Legalize... and...

Image


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beakybird
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18 Jun 2016, 2:59 pm

DataB4 wrote:
Some people waste their lives away smoking pot, while others waste their lives away on other things. Still others are responsible with it. I haven't seen any evidence that pot is any worse of a vice than all the other pleasures that we respect people's rights to indulge in. I've heard of pot addiction, but alcoholism seems way more common. I never considered the possibility that marijuana use might decrease alcohol use.

I've rarely heard arguments against pot because someone is religious. What do they say? The only one I've heard is the Mormons and the, can't think which group of Christians right now, who are against "harmful substances."


You brought up the point and counter-point right in your first statement that is the only one that makes sense to me. More people will be able to waste time smoking weed. You know who makes that point most often? People who watch ALOT of TV, anime, movies and video games. Everyone "wastes" time. To me, people waste too much time reading and pursuing knowledge. Many academic pursuits have little practical application. Few people call that a "waste" though. So i guess it depends on how you define wasting ones life or time. To me, if I "accomplished" nothing my entire life, but went through life in a pleasantly ignorant haze of weed smoke and died happy, did I waste my life?

Weed IS addictive though. I am an addict. And I have no issue with being addicted to something. We all are. Some addictions are just far more stigmatized. If I was addicted to ice cream sundaes, no one would say anything except the occasional fat joke. People are addicted as hell to energy drinks, and those things are terrible for you. But no stigma there. There's nothing wrong with addictions. At least not in my eyes. But unlike some, I'm not on this endless quest for balance or a textbook definition of mental health. I just want to get through this existence as happy as possible.

Alcohol will absolutely decrease in use with the legalization of marijuana. People like to unwind with substances. All people don't, but many do. Not as many people are as keen on breaking the law, so legal buzz must be alcohol. But if weed were legal, we'd have alot more backyard bbq's that had joints instead of Budweisers. I have known many people over the years who smoke and drink, as that's very common, but like weed so much better. However scarcity, fear and cost make those people lean on more alcohol. Also, it's very common for a pothead to be "forced" to drink due to lack of availability of pot around. I've bought liquor many times because I couldn't just get pot. There's a reason the beer industry is against pot legalization. It's not just big pharma who's scared.

There are MANY religious arguments against. As a matter of fact, all of Islam, Christianity and Judaism teach it's wrong. Fundamentally. Now, more liberal interpretations of said faiths will not condemn weed smoke. At least not Christianity, because I know little of the other two scripturally speaking. But I do believe such things are wrong.

However any of your more strict Christian faiths condemn any and all drug use. "pharmakeia" is the word most often sited in the Bible against marijuana use. It's meaning is connected to drugs used in sorcery and witchcraft. Fundamentalist/KJV Christians believe all things of any spiritual nature whatsoever not directly related to Jesus Christ are witchcraft and therefore sinful. Marijuana use originates from India and was used in magical/religious rites. This makes it's use a big no-no. I believe pharmakeia appears like 4 or 5 times in the New Testament (though I may be off-- it's been awhile since my Christian days) and it's always surrounded in context with other sinful things for which, depending on interpretations here (which vary WILDLY) you will not go to Heaven. There is also times where Christians are instructed to be sober and of a sound mind, which would obviously not include smoking pot. It's also breaking the law still. Even in legal states it's still against Federal Law. A debatable point there for sure, but one I'm sure gets debated. But the Bible teaches to follow the laws.

Now I don't know where Christians along conventional denominational lines would fall on this issue (Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran etc) but I do know anyone who ascribes to "KJV Only" (the King James Version being the only acceptable translation of the Bible into English) believes pot is totally wrong. I believe the Bible does teach that myself after years of reading just about every Biblical scholarly angle of the issue from dozens of viewpoints. Im not Christian today so I'm not following it though.