Scotland seeks independent entry to the European Union

Post Reply New Topic

I wonder who that “everyone” is who is “extremely against it”. Quite a strong statement.

On the other hand, Catalonia is not Scotland—it can’t just vote for its independence. In fact, it’s not realistic at all to expect it ever to secede from Spain, no matter how many separatists there may be (and time is running out for them, as Catalonia’s linguistic and cultural assimilation by the rest of Spain goes on), unless, for some bizarre reason, some big foreign power decides to support them militarily.

we live in strange times. politics can change overnight, and the implications can be huge and often bizarre. i feel lazy going back to such an easy example yet again once more, but... trump. a year ago he was just kind of a slightly alarming running joke. he's still running, but it's not a joke anymore

now that is something i did not expect. and it's so interesting to think how it's very closely tied to almost literally ancient history (just not literally ancient, but medieval instead). gibraltar is a very peculiar political unit

reminds me of something i read the other day, explaining why scotland agreed to join the uk to begin with. bizarrely, it was because they wanted to colonize panama. except, despite how narrow the land is, trade through panama wasn't actually feasible back then, and the spaniards were already waiting on the other side and weren't happy about the new visitors. so scotland was in huge debt after the spectacular flop, and england offered to assimilate them to settle the issue and avoid violent conflict or further attempts at competition

i may be getting some details wrong, but i remember that that was the gist of the story. bizarre...

------

oh i found the video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HnMLq8m9U

there's also another one speculating on the fate of the uk after the brexit vote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk

Dunno. Perhaps you could seek clarification from Mauricio Macri, president of the Argentine.

In the English language the country was traditionally called "the Argentine", mimicking the typical Spanish usage la Argentina.[28] This fell out of fashion during the mid-to-late 20th century, and now the country is simply referred to as "Argentina".

A recent survey shows that if given the choice between the EU and the UK,the majority of Scots still favour the UK.
One of the main reasons is bound to be economic as 64% of exports go to the rest of the UK compared to 15% to the EU. These days opinions can change overnight and a lot of people are waiting to see what deal the UK gets with the EU.
In the long term,despite the current trade figures,the rest of the UK is a market of 60 million people whereas the EU
is a potential market of 500 million and possibly expanding.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/brexit-fails-boost-support-scottish-independence/

I don't know what gender fits in with this, but the Scottish referendum business needs someone in charge who can back their self-governance. Take Gordon Brown for one, he was born on exactly the same day and month as me, but for some reason, I felt that he always was a Scot. I'd want to fight for my homeland if it was me in charge.

one thing that just occurred to me is, if spain won't support scotland for fear of encouraging separatists, then what about belgium? wouldn't they be the obvious ones to be fearing a split? unsurprisingly, the first thing i get when i google scotland spain belgium european union is "Spain and Belgium would veto independent Scotland in EU". i also see france mentioned (occitania?). would scotland have any way to gain belgium's support?

also if the discussion starts to build momentum internationally, i would find it odd if italy wouldn't also join the "separatists have no place here" club. italy is barely even consolidated as a unified nation. if they're not so concerned about it so far, i imagine it's only because it's (so far) very unlikely that they would ever leave the eu in any foreseeable future. but the way things are going, it's clear that there is a small but real chance that the eu might become irrelevant over the next decade or two, and i'm sure politicians are aware of that

----

apparently the thing with france would be corsica. seriously? corsica? independent? that sounds to me like a very bad idea no matter what. or do they want to join italy or something?

I seriously doubt any separatist movement in western Europe has any chance of succeeding, but I’ve always found the usual slippery-slope argument amazing: “Yeah, we have to stay firm denying the people of this region the right to choose whether they want to remain part of a country they found themselves in through a long and complex historical process having little to do with a modern democracy, let alone their will as 21st-century citizens, in case other people elsewhere want that right, too”.

EDIT – Tpyo.

Last edited by Spiderpig on 30 Jul 2016, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i guess people today are used to the idea of countries as stable and sort of eternal, as if countries were the natural order of things, and then it's not so hard to sell the idea that separatism is inherently "bad". and then on the other hand there'll be the ones who will react by defending unrecognized nation states as inherently "good". when, in fact, neither makes any real sense. even cultural cohesion (which is rare nowadays) offers no guarantee of a viable political entity

i don't know if there was any time or place in history where reason was a significant factor in politics against upper-minority interests and mass sentiment. it would be very interesting to see an example if someone could come up with one. i suppose it's not strictly impossible, but i really can't think of any

It's funny how we tend to think of countries as being stable but even recent history shows they aren't.In my lifetime the following countries have broken up or merged :
Germany
Czechoslovakia
Yugoslavia
Cyprus
USSR
Pakistan
Ethiopia
Sudan
China (acquired Hong Kong)

Are you disappointed that polls say we want to stay in the UK and trying to get rid of us ?
Gordon Brown is obviously a proud Scot but is also a staunch Unionist.In the the independence referendum he almost
single-handedly turned the tide in the last days before voting with rousing speeches in favour of the UK.

Often polls suggest the opposite maths of what everybody wants. I am committed to my island status, that's why my vote was for leave and I have no regrets thus far.