12 Jul 2016, 1:48 am
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
12 Jul 2016, 6:06 am
12 Jul 2016, 7:19 am
12 Jul 2016, 7:42 am
Campin_Cat
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Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
12 Jul 2016, 8:30 am
12 Jul 2016, 8:32 am
12 Jul 2016, 8:51 am
Campin_Cat wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
There have been terrible things in my life I won't even share with my wife of 54 years. You'd think that might make me much more sensitive...but it hasn't...it takes work. But I'm working on it.
I find this very interesting----you're the second person, this week, to say that to me. I've told most people I've ever met about all the bad things that have happened in my life----my thinking was: "You have to know ALL of me, and if you're STILL accepting of me, we've got a chance". I guess I figured a relationship didn't stand a chance, unless I put all of my cards on the table.
Wellll...they say "never say never." When I was younger, before much of my life, I would have agreed with you 100%;
Ah, yes----when I was younger, before much of my life, I wouldn't have said it, cuz I KNEW better. I am OLDER, now----AFTER much of my life, and to borrow from Joni Mitchell, "I've looked at life from both sides now".
In the seventies, when you were working with / talking to those black men, and I was going to school with black kids, I SHARED your opinion of them. Now, that I'm LIVING / working with them, as an ADULT, I see things from a MUCH different perspective.
By THEN, my mother had gotten a good job, and had a car, and we had a TV----and, I often felt badly for people who couldn't have that. Also, when one has someone taking care of them, one sees things differently.
NOW, when I'm struggling, so, it's very difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who cries "poor-mouth", all-the-time, is on welfare, etc., but can go to the hair-dresser's anytime they want, drives a nice car, etc., etc.
Also, we're talking about 40 years ago (+/-)..... Your opinions seem NOT to have changed----my guess is, because your EXPERIENCES have not changed----MINE HAVE (opinions AND experiences). IMO, if my thinking of things hadn't broaden, I don't know if I'd've survived, "out here".
When one is thirty-ish, they react differently to people, and people react differently, to THEM, than when they're in their seventies----just as when one is in their teens, as *I* was. Also, it was a different time, in our country----different culture----the people we were relating-to, back THEN, are NOT the same people, today, EITHER.
For me, to think I will always think the same, frightens me a little.
Maybe because thinking the same, would mean you haven't grown / increased your knowledge, or whatever. I can understand that----I'm thinking it's quite common for ASDers, because we hunger, so, for knowledge. I can NEVER (there's that word, again, LOL) learn enough!!
I now actively question all of my long held beliefs, and find some need to be updated.....
That's WONDERFUL----IMO, very healthy!! When I was a kid, a person your age with that attitude was, seemingly, non-existent.
The privation you lived through when you were young was something I did not experience; for me the lack was mostly all social/emotional. It's not easy to be able to put yourself in someone's shoes as they grew up, and for me (and others) it's especially hard. I do much better with cold facts. I should have tried harder...I apologize for not treating you like a human being instead of a disembodied voice in a paragraph. Mia Culpa, Mia Culpa, Mia Culpa.
Actually, I experienced MORE years of privation, as an ADULT, than a child----that was partly the point of my post; and, why I'm on a mission, now!
I don't know that there ARE any "cold facts". I mean, for every fact, there's a counter-fact; for every research, there's a counter; for every study, there's a counter----the best one can do, maybe, is "best 3-outta-5", or something. Plus, I feel if we allow ourselves to get stuck in the mindset of "Just the facts, ma'am", we might miss a chance to grow. Aspies seem to want everything in a nice, neat little package, tied-up with a bow (I, certainly, have been guilty of this), but life can't always give us that----sometimes, if we're lucky enough to even GET a package, the wait for wrapping paper, seems to take forever; and THEN, we might have to wait ANOTHER millennium (not literal), for a BOW. (My theory is, people like us like to have control over the OUTSIDE [I've been like this, too], cuz we have no control, over the INSIDE; and, our insides are driving us crazy, so we've gotta have a reprieve, SOMEWHERE.)
I accept your apology!!
Take care,
Cat
I find this very interesting----you're the second person, this week, to say that to me. I've told most people I've ever met about all the bad things that have happened in my life----my thinking was: "You have to know ALL of me, and if you're STILL accepting of me, we've got a chance". I guess I figured a relationship didn't stand a chance, unless I put all of my cards on the table.
Campin_Cat wrote:
Bottom line, for ME, is that you’ll never, in a million years, convince me that the way I feel / think about this subject, is wrong----and, you’ll never convince me that you’re right, so…..
Wellll...they say "never say never." When I was younger, before much of my life, I would have agreed with you 100%;
Ah, yes----when I was younger, before much of my life, I wouldn't have said it, cuz I KNEW better. I am OLDER, now----AFTER much of my life, and to borrow from Joni Mitchell, "I've looked at life from both sides now".
In the seventies, when you were working with / talking to those black men, and I was going to school with black kids, I SHARED your opinion of them. Now, that I'm LIVING / working with them, as an ADULT, I see things from a MUCH different perspective.
By THEN, my mother had gotten a good job, and had a car, and we had a TV----and, I often felt badly for people who couldn't have that. Also, when one has someone taking care of them, one sees things differently.
NOW, when I'm struggling, so, it's very difficult for me to feel sorry for someone who cries "poor-mouth", all-the-time, is on welfare, etc., but can go to the hair-dresser's anytime they want, drives a nice car, etc., etc.
Also, we're talking about 40 years ago (+/-)..... Your opinions seem NOT to have changed----my guess is, because your EXPERIENCES have not changed----MINE HAVE (opinions AND experiences). IMO, if my thinking of things hadn't broaden, I don't know if I'd've survived, "out here".
When one is thirty-ish, they react differently to people, and people react differently, to THEM, than when they're in their seventies----just as when one is in their teens, as *I* was. Also, it was a different time, in our country----different culture----the people we were relating-to, back THEN, are NOT the same people, today, EITHER.
For me, to think I will always think the same, frightens me a little.
Maybe because thinking the same, would mean you haven't grown / increased your knowledge, or whatever. I can understand that----I'm thinking it's quite common for ASDers, because we hunger, so, for knowledge. I can NEVER (there's that word, again, LOL) learn enough!!
I now actively question all of my long held beliefs, and find some need to be updated.....
That's WONDERFUL----IMO, very healthy!! When I was a kid, a person your age with that attitude was, seemingly, non-existent.
The privation you lived through when you were young was something I did not experience; for me the lack was mostly all social/emotional. It's not easy to be able to put yourself in someone's shoes as they grew up, and for me (and others) it's especially hard. I do much better with cold facts. I should have tried harder...I apologize for not treating you like a human being instead of a disembodied voice in a paragraph. Mia Culpa, Mia Culpa, Mia Culpa.
Actually, I experienced MORE years of privation, as an ADULT, than a child----that was partly the point of my post; and, why I'm on a mission, now!
I don't know that there ARE any "cold facts". I mean, for every fact, there's a counter-fact; for every research, there's a counter; for every study, there's a counter----the best one can do, maybe, is "best 3-outta-5", or something. Plus, I feel if we allow ourselves to get stuck in the mindset of "Just the facts, ma'am", we might miss a chance to grow. Aspies seem to want everything in a nice, neat little package, tied-up with a bow (I, certainly, have been guilty of this), but life can't always give us that----sometimes, if we're lucky enough to even GET a package, the wait for wrapping paper, seems to take forever; and THEN, we might have to wait ANOTHER millennium (not literal), for a BOW. (My theory is, people like us like to have control over the OUTSIDE [I've been like this, too], cuz we have no control, over the INSIDE; and, our insides are driving us crazy, so we've gotta have a reprieve, SOMEWHERE.)
I accept your apology!!
Take care,
Cat
Thanks very much Cat.
You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.
At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"
You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.
As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please) so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur? Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago??? Can you move?
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
12 Jul 2016, 2:10 pm
12 Jul 2016, 3:50 pm
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
12 Jul 2016, 4:06 pm
12 Jul 2016, 7:59 pm
Social liberals seem to be pretty damn scared of inanimate objects and the people that own them. 
Perhaps people should ask LoveNotHate where he/she lives/lived.
If you live in say, a high crime majority black area of Chicago as a white individual, you're going to be "racist" just by design. It's how the brain works when there's so many black people committing violent crimes. Pattern recognition.
Perhaps it's unfair, but it's a survival mechanism.
You're never going to experience this if you live in a nice area your whole life (whether black or white people, it doesn't matter if they're equally peaceful; the brain isn't going to see either as a threat in this context).
Campin_Cat
Veteran
Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.
13 Jul 2016, 11:30 am
ZenDen wrote:
Thanks very much Cat.
You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.
At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"
SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!
Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.
You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.
Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.
As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.
As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)
No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.
so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?
Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!
Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???
Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).
I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....
I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.
Can you move?
Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).
You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.
At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"
SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!
Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.
You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.
Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.
As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.
As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)
No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.
so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?
Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!
Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???
Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).
I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....
I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.
Can you move?
Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).
13 Jul 2016, 12:23 pm
Campin_Cat wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
Thanks very much Cat.
You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.
At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"
SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!
Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.
You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.
Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.
As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.
As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)
No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.
so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?
Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!
Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???
Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).
I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....
I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.
Can you move?
Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).
You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.
At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"
SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!
Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.
You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.
Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.
As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.
As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)
No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.
so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?
Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!
Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???
Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).
I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....
I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.
Can you move?
Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).
Hi Cat:
What are the major changes since Columbine? Some schools have taken security measures? More hyteria about guns?
What are the major changes since 9/11? Anger at Muslims? I think that was the point, no matter your theory.
You say: ...that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)...
No, but close....it's 50+ and counting. And in those days there was no major drug problem, pot and a little heroin.
BUT THEN in the early '80s you had THIS:
********************************************************************************************
CIA involvement in Contra cocaine trafficking (go look it all up if you wish.) The CIA helped push cocaine into the ghettos....soon after came crack. (As far as I know the CIA introduced this as well).
********************************************************************************************
THIS is what brought drugs to the ghetto and ruined any chance these people had. Blame the responsible parties for shoving this scourge down these poor people's throats, not the stupid dupes that welcomed it.
You shouldn't be so jealous just because someone has scored a Cadillac, how they did is none of your business; think of all the problems this will cause them in the future as well.
50 years ago (before the CIA debacle) there was no drug problem...yes there was crime, but not the gangs (although there were gangs then) that you see now with automatic weapons. It was more laid back.....until King was assassinated....that started the ball rolling downhill. (Maybe another CIA plot?)
And you're in the middle of it.
I'm so sorry.
13 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
13 Jul 2016, 1:18 pm
13 Jul 2016, 2:40 pm
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