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Licensed to carry black man shot by police

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beneficii
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07 Jul 2016, 9:02 am

This man, whose friend says he was law-abiding, had a good job, and was licensed-to-carry, was shot by police. The man, by the way, is black:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... line-video

The officer claims the man reached for his gun. The man's friend says he revealed he was carrying and was getting out his license and registration when the officer suddenly opened fire, killing him with 4 shots.

There was another black man shot earlier this week by police, which led to protests in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The protesters say, and they have some evidence on video to back this up, that when the man was already restrained an officer took out a gun and shot him multiple times.


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07 Jul 2016, 9:31 am

I'll reserve my outrage til all facts comein.
Another person of "minor record" law abiding good man.


The Louisiana guy was 1) a felon carrying gun and resisting arrest 2) A CONVICTED Pedo/Woman beater/gangfighter/Robber

and at first there was all the outrage of great nice father of 5 kids (who BTW he is Deadbeat dad tune of 25k in a state that doesn't not have compound interest).

So with those caveats in place I will await making a judgment on victimhood, even if being killed sucks.
I've had a cop in SF area get sketchy on me for reaching for my registration early for a speeding ticket that was only for 20 over (I fought&won in court. He got the wrong person, I was in the cut in lane at time). I mean lickety split he was unsnapping the holster when he asked me to hold still. I appear white. I am female. I was in a 9 month old Yellow & gold 1988 ZCamero with a babyseat in back and a duffle bag in back. And a stupid deadhead sticker (my X put on).
If I had made a fast lunge after he barked hold, he would shot my ass. My white privilege would have been useless there. i also have been stopped in downtown phoenix in evening trying to catch a missed buss as a Prostitute becuase I looked shabby, I had my heels off so I could run, I had tan and dyed hair dark, so looked more like the hispanic I am, in expensive clothes in wrong side of town. They kindly took me me quick to the nearest bus still running after they made sure I was legal, lawful and just in wrong place. I also had a taser and flip knife in my purse.

It is important to not worry about my rights in the heat of moment and to simply comply. I can fight an unfair ticket in court. Be compensated for wrongful arrest. Even if I did something criminal, rights kick in fast and public defender is doing the magic within 24 hours. Unless you truly are a BAD person,. The best action is no reaction and just quietly taking the shoves, yelling, grilling or whatever. You can't be compensated with foolish death by cop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA how not to be get your ass kiked by police


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beneficii
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07 Jul 2016, 9:34 am

Either way, this is something that happens a lot. A lot of people are angry about it.


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AspE
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07 Jul 2016, 9:43 am

These firearm deaths could only be prevented if EVERYONE had a gun. Oh, wait...



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07 Jul 2016, 10:00 am

beneficii wrote:
...The man's friend says he revealed he was carrying....

That was a deadly mistake. When encountering any law-enforcement officer (LEO) while armed, the individual should always disclose to the LEO that the individual is armed, describe where the firearm is located and ask the LEO if he or she would like to remove the firearm or if the individual should do so. Most LEOs will prefer to remove the firearm, though I have been told by at least one friend that the LEO in his case couldn't understand how to remove a firearm from a tactical holster -- which won't release the firearm until a somewhat discreet lever or button is depressed first, and ended up dragging my 6'6", 300-lbs., friend around his own front-yard lawn in the attempt.

So, yeah. While it is lawful in my state (and other states) for armed individuals to warn certain others verbally or visually that they are armed, it is never a good idea to warn a LEO visually. Still, the LEO acted unlawfully because the LEO reacted with lethal force without any evidence that the individual used his firearm in a threatening way.


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07 Jul 2016, 11:02 am

Now Twatter is flapping about the NRA defending this guy.
Um was he a member of NRA?

And was he fully legal? Really? So sure the rhetoric is passed around.

Permit to own a gun and open carry state is NOT PERMISSION TO CONCEAL CARRY.
So right there was already mistake number one.
And would lose support from NRA immediately.

It doesn't matter WHAT COLOR you are if you have a gun in the car or on person (or ever alleged or suspected to have) during a traffic stop.
You better be calm and still until they acquire it and run your records. No sudden moves or insisting on opening anything, reaching anywhere to 'prove" jack s**t.

The 2 reason a cop can shot your dum ass, one is restricted in 1985 but still reads on books:

Quote:
A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead...however...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force.


Quote:
In the United States, the use of deadly force is often granted to law enforcement officers when the person or people in question are believed to be an immediate danger to people around them. For example, an armed man flaunting a firearm in a shopping mall without regard to the safety of those around him, and refusing or being unwilling to negotiate, would warrant usage of deadly force, as a means to protect others. The use of deadly force is also authorized when a person poses a significant threat to a law enforcement officer, usually when the officer is at risk of serious bodily injury or death. This is governed by the Tennessee v. Garner ruling in 1985 in which the U.S. Supreme Court said that "deadly force...may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others." This case abolished the Fleeing felon rule where a fleeing felon who posed no immediate threat to society (e.g., a burglar) could be shot if he/she refused to halt

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/re ... nesota.htm
Quote:
It is a gross misdemeanor to carry a concealed firearm without a permit in Minnesota. Penalties include a fine of up to $3,000, up to one year in jail, or both


knowing this you have to be hella stupid to struggle with police when you are being disarmed or are a probation breaking felon or about to have a felony firearms charge. No one deserves to die stupidly, but some actions are almost asking for tragic result.

http://gotnews.com/breaking-philandocas ... angmember/

btw as a former gang member he would not be allowed concealed carry or open carry in public even if he had no felonies enough bar ownership.


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beneficii
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07 Jul 2016, 12:14 pm

"That's why we don't call [the police]":

Quote:
Last Fourth of July, in a few short minutes as we adults watched the teenager among us talking to the police, we saw Hunter become a little more like us, her faith a little shaken, her place in the world a little less stable. Hunter, who is biracial and lives with her white mother in a heavily white area, had not been exposed to the policing many black Americans face. She was about to be.

On the phone, she could offer only the most generic of suspect descriptions, which apparently made the officer on the other end of the line suspicious. By way of explanation, Hunter told the officer she was just 16. The police called her back: once, twice, then three times, asking her for more information. The interactions began to feel menacing. “I’m not from here,” Hunter said. “I’ve told you everything I know.”

The fourth time the police called, she looked frightened. Her interrogator asked her, “Are you really trying to be helpful, or were you involved in this?” She turned to us, her voice aquiver. “Are they going to come get me?”

“See,” one of us said, trying to lighten the mood. “That’s why we don’t call them.”


https://www.propublica.org/article/yes- ... -heres-why


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07 Jul 2016, 12:34 pm

In the video, the officer shouts, "I told him not to reach for it, I told him to get his hand off it".



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07 Jul 2016, 3:52 pm

well, this appears to be making major headlines in all the large news outlets...

Except Fox... (front page, a few minutes ago)...

Image



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07 Jul 2016, 5:49 pm

A police shooting is not justified just because someone has a past criminal record, or because someone is poor. It is possible that the officers didn't even know those things when they shot. Also, if conceal/open carry is legal it shouldn't matter if they had a gun unless they were actually pulling their gun out, which in the Baton Rouge case we already know wasn't happening by the video. Unfortunately there is not video of the other one, but I have trouble believing that the guy with his girlfriend and a 4 year old in the car wanted to start a gunfight with a police officer.



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07 Jul 2016, 6:16 pm

If the female is speaking the truth, then the officer was negligent, as there was no reason to assume the guy was violent, even if he was being dumb and grabbing the firearm to show the officer.

If the officer was there due to a domestic incident, then yeah, but not for a traffic violation.



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07 Jul 2016, 8:32 pm

I hope that the officer gets convicted of homicide.

Anyway this is all typical police behavior caught on video. No concern for loss of life. All they care about is saving their own hide.



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08 Jul 2016, 7:31 am

SAF.org wrote:
July 7th, 2016
SAF, CCRKBA CALL FOR INDEPENDENT PROBE OF FATAL SHOOTING OF LEGALLY ARMED CITIZEN

BELLEVUE, WA — In the aftermath of Wednesday’s shooting of a legally armed citizen in the St. Paul, Minnesota suburb of Falcon Heights during a traffic stop, the Second Amendment Foundation and Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms are calling for an independent investigation.

“Wednesday night’s shooting of Philando Castile is very troubling, especially to the firearms community, because he was a legally-armed private citizen who may have done nothing more than reach for his identification and carry permit,” said Alan Gottlieb, SAF founder and executive vice president. He also chairs the CCRKBA. “We have received calls of alarm today from many of our members across the country. They are justifiably concerned that a law-abiding citizen may have been wrongfully killed....”

https://www.saf.org/saf-ccrkba-call-for ... d-citizen/


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08 Jul 2016, 9:04 am

I hate to sound callous, but I'm not convinced the CD guy wasn't a drug dealer. It did seem like he was straight up murdered, but I don't feel all that sorry for drug dealers. Again, maybe that's awful for me to say.

The other guy now, is an entirely different matter. I don't think these two things should keep being compared. the Minnesota guy was just a regular guy who happened to be legally carrying and also happened to be black. He was very clearly straight up murdered and it's frightening that a person can be murdered by a police officer while doing nothing wrong.

If you're going to be freaked out by another person carrying a gun maybe YOU shouldn't be carrying one yourself. I live in a region where it's fairly common for people to carry, both openly and concealed. Just because someone is armed doesn't mean they're dangerous. But not everyone thinks that.



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08 Jul 2016, 9:45 am

GGPViper wrote:
well, this appears to be making major headlines in all the large news outlets...

Except Fox... (front page, a few minutes ago)...

Image

What is the point other than intellectual dishonesty. you don't like faux news or something?

Because the side line of image you grabbed CLEARLY shows "Breaking Now" news has both the Gov of MI making treatment the believes it was a racial motivated shooting and Jess Jackson trying to defend that THUG Alton.

I don't feel sorry for Alton. No , I don't think he "deserved to die" but he brought his death on himself.
Alton: Armed felon breaking probation who had just threatened the 911 caller with that gun and was resisting arrest. And did not immediately throw down the firearm.


The other guy, it looks like he died wrongfully through excessive force.
Philadon: *as known at this time* average guy growing up with hoochie girlfriend that had recently been trying to be "cool" pretending he is a crip. made an error in judgment and was shot by a twitchy finger Barney who will be doing time for wrongful death.


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08 Jul 2016, 11:30 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
In the video, the officer shouts, "I told him not to reach for it, I told him to get his hand off it".


You show us the words the officer spoke
but how would you describe the officer's
tone-of-voice or demeanor? It was odd
sounding to me.

I would describe it thusly: The officer seemed
to have difficulty speaking..as though his throat
were constricting which makes his voice come
through with a "growling" or "grating" sound.

I've heard this same sound in another instance
of a police officer under pressure. It was disturbing,
if not frightening to watch this officer loose control
of his emotions/actions.

Plenty of these cops should be selling shoes or
filling cappuccino cups...it's obvious putting
untrained, unsuited officers in the field with
guns is a rotten idea. Which likely could be
part of the reason why officer suicides are
near the top of the list.

But we still have the old fraternity system
(Fraternal Order of Police..remember?) and
plenty of what goes on is supported by old
values and rules. It's time to change.