Licensed to carry black man shot by police

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Kraichgauer
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12 Jul 2016, 4:06 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I rarely, if ever, come across "subconscious bias", but whatever.

I have bias.

1st: What someone looks like. Are they scary looking?

2nd: Random Blacks in the ghetto. When you go into the ghetto, it's like a zombie movie, and blacks are the zombies. They could attack you at any time. Survey, watch your back, don't break down.

3rd: The context. If the person lives in a ghetto or slums, then I think they're dangerous. What kind of person lives in such filth, such disrepair? What's wrong with that person I wonder.

4th: Groups of people. What're they doing there? Is this a gang? For example, I once saw about eight "skin head" white guys at a gas station. I got out of there quickly.


1st - Never judge a book by it's cover.
2nd - A tad bit dehumanizing, don't you think?
3rd - What's wrong with people that they live in the ghetto? Lack of money and means to live anywhere else.
4th - Sure, it's sound thinking to avoid people who are criminally inclined, whether they be skinheads or a street gang. But not all blacks belong to street gangs, anymore than most whites are skinheads.


You remind me of the oblivious guy in horror movies, that reassures everyone "nothing to worry about", "monsters aren't real" .....

While everyone else can see the potential danger.



It's said that the difference between the liberal and conservative brains is that conservatives are more likely to be fearful.
As for haunted houses - I grew up in a house I believe might have been, and I found the less fear you have, the less energy you give to whatever entity might be there. So the husband in the video was actually doing the right thing.


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12 Jul 2016, 7:59 pm

Social liberals seem to be pretty damn scared of inanimate objects and the people that own them. :P

Perhaps people should ask LoveNotHate where he/she lives/lived.

If you live in say, a high crime majority black area of Chicago as a white individual, you're going to be "racist" just by design. It's how the brain works when there's so many black people committing violent crimes. Pattern recognition.

Perhaps it's unfair, but it's a survival mechanism.

You're never going to experience this if you live in a nice area your whole life (whether black or white people, it doesn't matter if they're equally peaceful; the brain isn't going to see either as a threat in this context).



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13 Jul 2016, 11:30 am

ZenDen wrote:
Thanks very much Cat. :D

You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.

At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"

SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!

Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.


You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.

Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.

As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.


As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)

No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.

so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?

Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!

Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???

Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).

I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....

I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.


Can you move?

Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).



ZenDen
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13 Jul 2016, 12:23 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
Thanks very much Cat. :D

You said it's entirely possible I'm out of touch with changes in the black community, not having close association for many years.

At first I thought "Now wait a minute here..." but after I thought about it for a while I thought.."Is it possible for an entire group of people to change like this?"

SURE it is!! Let's take Columbine, for example..... We, as a people (Americans), were MUCH different, before and after, that horrible tragedy, and the so many that followed, wouldn't you say? Also, what about 9/11? I'm thinking our country / our country's thinking, changed ALOT, after that!

Also, like I said, that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)----do you not feel you have changed as a person, generally speaking, since back-then? I know *I* sure have----and, I feel certain that anybody else would say they've changed a great deal, in 40 years.


You've said it's almost as though there is a "different culture" in Black neighborhoods. Supposedly poor people flashing signs of wealth and "hauteur" while you live the impoverished life.

Actually, the way I was thinking, is that the American culture, as-a-whole, has changed, since then.

As for poor people "flashing signs of wealth", that part hasn't changed, IMO. For as long as I can remember it's been like that----poor people, on welfare, living in the ghetto, and driving Cadillacs, for instance, was VERY common, back then.


As far as I know the government hasn't increased it's Welfare payments drastically (I could be wrong-tell me if I am please)

No, you're not wrong about that. AFAIK, only cost-of-living increases, have been made.

so where does this money come from???? The only thing I can think of (overall not in the specific) is drug profit; would you concur?

Yes, I DEFINITELY think that's where the "wealth" comes-from!! My neighbor that I was telling you about, that's dripping in gold----her baby daddy drives a Jaguar!! NOBODY, in this neighborhood, drives a Jag, unless they've got a hustle, of SOME kind----and, drugs are the ONLY thing that could provide for that, IMO. The way *I* look at it, is if he was doing something legit, then why wouldn't he get his girlfriend / family, in a better place. As it is, they're living in a possible 8 or 900+ dollar apartment, and only paying, maybe, 100 dollars, for it----so, why pay more, if you don't have to!

Do you see more evidence of drug use in your neighborhood that weren't evident many years ago???

Ummm, I don't actually SEE drug use----I only SMELL it, when it seeps-into my apartment, from another's apartment. It's absolute MURDER smelling ANY of that stuff (Aspie sensory issues, of course). My neighbor, downstairs, smokes pot, a few times a week, and that REALLY makes me angry----it's like somebody breaking into my house, and stealing something, to me, on the days I wake-up and my house REEKS of the stuff, because one should be able to have control over what comes into their house. Crack is just as bad----at least, that's what I THINK it was, the times that I've smelled it. I had to search on the internet about it (I've never done street drugs, not even pot, so I didn't know certain stuff----my eldest sister would shoot, pop, smoke, drink anything you'd give her, so I learned SOME tidbits, from her).

I see drug DEALING, though----and, I would say it goes in waves. For awhile, it'll be quite prevalent; then, the cops'll drive everybody out; then, there'll be another wave, and so-on. A gas station, not far from here, was recently raided / closed-down, cuz there was all kinds of crime, up there----drugs, people gettin' murdered, and stuff.....

I'd say it's been pretty steady / regular, all these years, downtown----with exceptional occurrences, sometimes.


Can you move?

Oh, my, no. It takes, what is to ME, a small mint, to do that----I don't have any friends or family (well, no family in the area, and no friends, AT ALL).



Hi Cat:

What are the major changes since Columbine? Some schools have taken security measures? More hyteria about guns?

What are the major changes since 9/11? Anger at Muslims? I think that was the point, no matter your theory.

You say: ...that was FORTY years, ago (I'm talking about your working with the black men, now)...
No, but close....it's 50+ and counting. And in those days there was no major drug problem, pot and a little heroin.

BUT THEN in the early '80s you had THIS:
********************************************************************************************
CIA involvement in Contra cocaine trafficking
(go look it all up if you wish.) The CIA helped push cocaine into the ghettos....soon after came crack. (As far as I know the CIA introduced this as well).
********************************************************************************************
THIS is what brought drugs to the ghetto and ruined any chance these people had. Blame the responsible parties for shoving this scourge down these poor people's throats, not the stupid dupes that welcomed it.

You shouldn't be so jealous just because someone has scored a Cadillac, how they did is none of your business; think of all the problems this will cause them in the future as well.

50 years ago (before the CIA debacle) there was no drug problem...yes there was crime, but not the gangs (although there were gangs then) that you see now with automatic weapons. It was more laid back.....until King was assassinated....that started the ball rolling downhill. (Maybe another CIA plot?)

And you're in the middle of it. :( I'm so sorry.



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13 Jul 2016, 1:09 pm

Police in Castile's locale disproportionately arrest African-Americans:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apne ... k-40553699


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13 Jul 2016, 1:18 pm

beneficii wrote:
Police in Castile's locale disproportionately arrest African-Americans:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apne ... k-40553699


Not PC but is it possible that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in that locale?



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13 Jul 2016, 2:40 pm

Jacoby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Police in Castile's locale disproportionately arrest African-Americans:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apne ... k-40553699


Not PC but is it possible that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in that locale?


In the article:

"Court records show he had been stopped or ticketed more than 50 times in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area."

(Sounds like automotive "Stop and frisk", like they have in NYC.)

"The data provided by the department does not give details about individual arrests, nor does it show when an arrestee was also issued a citation. But the department's annual reports show that the vast majority of its arrests are prompted by traffic-related offenses."

I guess black drivers must be very bad?

Or....????



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13 Jul 2016, 3:33 pm

Wow America, you guys are really freaking out huh?

That's what happens when everybody wants to carry guns and nobody trusts anyone.

When you don't have a gun, you can't threaten anyone with it and you don't get shot by the police.
Why you Americans don't understand that?



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13 Jul 2016, 3:37 pm

52 times over the course of the last 14 years, that is a lot altho not as bad when they say once every 4 months. Maybe that department does have an issue, I don't know. Maybe somebody from the area can give better insight on the locale, is it some suburban speed trap or is there a high crime area there or nearby?

I'm not surprised that most of the arrests were prompted off traffic offenses tho if I understand what that means correctly, that's as opposed to them being called out right?

I think body cameras should be mandated for all police nationwide, ambiguity like this is a huge problem.



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13 Jul 2016, 4:05 pm

Jacoby wrote:
52 times over the course of the last 14 years, that is a lot altho not as bad when they say once every 4 months. Maybe that department does have an issue, I don't know. Maybe somebody from the area can give better insight on the locale, is it some suburban speed trap or is there a high crime area there or nearby?

I'm not surprised that most of the arrests were prompted off traffic offenses tho if I understand what that means correctly, that's as opposed to them being called out right?

I think body cameras should be mandated for all police nationwide, ambiguity like this is a huge problem.


Also in the article:

All told, roughly 38 percent of the people arrested by the St. Anthony Police Department since 2011 have been black.

Police in the suburban St. Paul area where a black man was shot and killed during a traffic stop have disproportionately arrested African-Americans, according to an analysis of data provided by the department that shows nearly half of the people arrested this year in the heavily white community were black.

St. Anthony figures for police-issued citations are closer to the demographics of neighboring communities. Twelve percent of its citations issued since 2011 have been to blacks.

I think they have a problem.



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13 Jul 2016, 4:08 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Police in Castile's locale disproportionately arrest African-Americans:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/apne ... k-40553699


Not PC but is it possible that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in that locale?


In the article:

"Court records show he had been stopped or ticketed more than 50 times in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area."

(Sounds like automotive "Stop and frisk", like they have in NYC.)

"The data provided by the department does not give details about individual arrests, nor does it show when an arrestee was also issued a citation. But the department's annual reports show that the vast majority of its arrests are prompted by traffic-related offenses."

I guess black drivers must be very bad?

Or....????


I have to think, have the police ever considered that they might net as many arrests among white drivers, if they chose to harass said whites in the same way?


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13 Jul 2016, 6:53 pm

McCat wrote:
Wow America, you guys are really freaking out huh?

That's what happens when everybody wants to carry guns and nobody trusts anyone.

When you don't have a gun, you can't threaten anyone with it and you don't get shot by the police.
Why you Americans don't understand that?


Why, why, why...isn't that ALWAYS the question???

For instance: Why are there 33% more robberies per capita in The Netherlands than The United States?

Don't your people understand this criminal act should not be done; do you teach this in your schools? There seem to be many criminals per capita in your country. Do these nice people not have morals??? Guess not. How do you protect yourselves from robbery? Is it possible you don't and just submit to the robber's demands??? We don't like to do that here.

What do they use to rob others in your country; if not guns, then knives, smiles, courtesy??? Please be open with us because we would like to know what is wrong with you people, because overall crime in your country is higher as well (especially for such very nice people).

Your's is a very tiny country, with only a population of 17,000,000, about the size of only one of our large metropolitan areas. Plus you have a history of peace while we have one of war...some of this comes from the fact we're vastly younger as a country.

And while we're on the subject of history, your country has a very bloody history of colonization...what did they frighten the unfortunate backwards peoples with during their conquests...tulips?



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14 Jul 2016, 9:38 am

ZenDen wrote:
McCat wrote:
Wow America, you guys are really freaking out huh?

That's what happens when everybody wants to carry guns and nobody trusts anyone.

When you don't have a gun, you can't threaten anyone with it and you don't get shot by the police.
Why you Americans don't understand that?


Why, why, why...isn't that ALWAYS the question???

For instance: Why are there 33% more robberies per capita in The Netherlands than The United States?

Don't your people understand this criminal act should not be done; do you teach this in your schools? There seem to be many criminals per capita in your country. Do these nice people not have morals??? Guess not. How do you protect yourselves from robbery? Is it possible you don't and just submit to the robber's demands??? We don't like to do that here.

What do they use to rob others in your country; if not guns, then knives, smiles, courtesy??? Please be open with us because we would like to know what is wrong with you people, because overall crime in your country is higher as well (especially for such very nice people).

Your's is a very tiny country, with only a population of 17,000,000, about the size of only one of our large metropolitan areas. Plus you have a history of peace while we have one of war...some of this comes from the fact we're vastly younger as a country.

And while we're on the subject of history, your country has a very bloody history of colonization...what did they frighten the unfortunate backwards peoples with during their conquests...tulips?


So my post (with all it's bumps and warts) asks a question, concerning some possible social tension, of someone who felt asking such a question of U.S. citizens was socially acceptable. He/she says, in essence, "What is wrong with you? Be like us, all happy and whatever."

I don't like questions and statements from people who aren't able to disclose their own malfunctioning society and merely want to make the U.S. out as a "bad guy." IT'S NOT FAIR.



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14 Jul 2016, 10:11 am

McCat wrote:
Wow America, you guys are really freaking out huh?

That's what happens when everybody wants to carry guns and nobody trusts anyone.

When you don't have a gun, you can't threaten anyone with it and you don't get shot by the police.
Why you Americans don't understand that?

Because everyone thinks they are a cowboy.



ZenDen
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14 Jul 2016, 11:47 am

AspE wrote:
McCat wrote:
Wow America, you guys are really freaking out huh?

That's what happens when everybody wants to carry guns and nobody trusts anyone.

When you don't have a gun, you can't threaten anyone with it and you don't get shot by the police.
Why you Americans don't understand that?

Because everyone thinks they are a cowboy.


So do you think of yourself as a cowboy????? Why so snarky?

How strange. Please describe "cowboy" if you don't mind.
Does it have anything to do with personal freedom, similar to what Great Britain just won back?

I wonder what you think when you say "cowboy".............
Some type of non-conformist who appreciates his American freedoms?
Someone who has rights under the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution
and is unwilling to surrender them to people with un-American leanings?
(Hint: Big Government)