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beneficii
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10 Jul 2016, 9:40 pm

In Memphis, from which I moved last year, protesters have shut down the I-40 bridge, one of the two bridges (the other being the I-55 bridge) that cross the Mississippi River in the Memphis area:

http://www.thv11.com/news/local/black-l ... /268915954


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Jacoby
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11 Jul 2016, 12:27 am

What are these people even trying to accomplish? I don't even think they know.



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11 Jul 2016, 12:28 am

Jacoby wrote:
What are these people even trying to accomplish? I don't even think they know.


"Electing Donald Trump, one riot at a time."


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beneficii
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11 Jul 2016, 1:04 am

In Baton Rouge, protest held on private property with the owner's permission is broken up by the police:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/black-live ... -1.3673056

Louisiana, of all the states, has the highest incarceration rate in the country (and thus the world). It's public defender system is broken:

http://www.gq.com/story/economics-of-po ... -louisiana

In much of the south a significant percentage of black people are disenfranchised for being convicted of felonies, which is likely partly due to over-policing:

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... ns_ca.html

I would say that the South, and perhaps Louisiana in particular, is a powder keg. If any conflagration starts, it will start there. I'm so glad I don't live in that region anymore.


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11 Jul 2016, 1:11 am

Quote:
In Baton Rouge, protest held on private property with the owner's permission is broken up by the police:

Video:


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Edenthiel
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11 Jul 2016, 1:27 am

Jacoby wrote:
What are these people even trying to accomplish? I don't even think they know.


They know. You don't know because the media isn't telling their side. Weird, huh?

From their Facebook page, a recent post. Might give you some idea:
Quote:
The Black Lives Matter Network advocates for Dignity, Justice, and Respect.

In the last few days, this country witnessed the recorded murders of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile at the hands of police, the latest victims in this country’s failed policing system. As we have done for decades, we marched and protested to highlight the urgent need to transform policing in America, to call for justice, transparency and accountability, and to demand that Black Lives Matter.


From the now-defunct blacklivesmatter.com website (using googlecache):

Quote:
28 - Every twenty-eight hours a black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.
35 - The average life expectancy for a black transgender woman is 35 years old.
6x - Black women are incarcerated at a rate 6 times that of white women.
74.1 - Percent of Black disabled people who are unemployed.
500,000 - Number of undocumented Black immigrants in the U.S.
60% - Percentage of Black girls sexually assaulted before age 18.


Basically, our society is still racist. Oh, sure; some parts are not. But they do nothing concrete to stop the parts that are. We just ignore them or pretend they have a "right to their opinion" when they utilize privilege to keep people oppressed.


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cyberdad
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11 Jul 2016, 1:51 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Basically, our society is still racist. Oh, sure; some parts are not. But they do nothing concrete to stop the parts that are. We just ignore them or pretend they have a "right to their opinion" when they utilize privilege to keep people oppressed.

Mainstream society (pick a country) is largely ignorant and prejudiced. Many of us in the autistic community are painfully aware of social stigma toward anybody who is different.



Jacoby
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11 Jul 2016, 2:11 am

That still doesn't tell me what they want, complaining about a problem with no practical solutions really accomplishes nothing but dividing people even more than they were before. Like Obama is totally nonsensical, he basically calls these cops racist killers and then he pushes gun control. It's just totally nonsensical.



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11 Jul 2016, 3:04 am

thoughtbeast wrote:
Quote:
In Baton Rouge, protest held on private property with the owner's permission is broken up by the police:

Video:


That is completely indefensible by the police. My wife and I had attended a Black Lives Matter demonstration at the Spokane courthouse last Saturday, and the police who were present were few in number and respectful. It goes to show you, cops are not the same everywhere.


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11 Jul 2016, 3:08 am

Jacoby wrote:
That still doesn't tell me what they want, complaining about a problem with no practical solutions really accomplishes nothing but dividing people even more than they were before. Like Obama is totally nonsensical, he basically calls these cops racist killers and then he pushes gun control. It's just totally nonsensical.


I think they have been explicit about what they want: they want the police to stop killing black people indiscriminately. They want the police to stop assuming blacks are guilty of something simply due to their skin color. Maybe they could have gotten something accomplished by influencing the legislative process, if the right hadn't have demonized them as a cop-killing hate group.


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Jacoby
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11 Jul 2016, 3:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
That still doesn't tell me what they want, complaining about a problem with no practical solutions really accomplishes nothing but dividing people even more than they were before. Like Obama is totally nonsensical, he basically calls these cops racist killers and then he pushes gun control. It's just totally nonsensical.


I think they have been explicit about what they want: they want the police to stop killing black people indiscriminately. They want the police to stop assuming blacks are guilty of something simply due to their skin color. Maybe they could have gotten something accomplished by influencing the legislative process, if the right hadn't have demonized them as a cop-killing hate group.


Cops aren't killing black people indiscriminately and using that type of rhetoric is exactly how extremists like Micah Johnson come to be. Justice should be served and justice should be blind, it's not always the case with people in places of authority but also just because the mob demands blood doesn't mean that's what should happen.

BLM has done nothing to classify itself as a legitimate civil rights group, I don't think running into college libraries and making white girls cry because of their 'privilege' accomplishes anything positive at all. I don't think shutting down interstates accomplishes anything. Practical solutions are what we need and this group does not provide them, they are a vehicle to vent anger and hate at the police and maybe sometimes justifiably so but that doesn't make them any better. They can't talk about any practical solutions because then that would mean turning the mirror around on themselves, what legislation would change anything?

The culture of poverty and drugs are the root of the issue and the black community can never progress until those issues are taken care of but instead all we get are rants are about racist cops and guns.



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11 Jul 2016, 3:41 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
That still doesn't tell me what they want, complaining about a problem with no practical solutions really accomplishes nothing but dividing people even more than they were before. Like Obama is totally nonsensical, he basically calls these cops racist killers and then he pushes gun control. It's just totally nonsensical.


I think they have been explicit about what they want: they want the police to stop killing black people indiscriminately. They want the police to stop assuming blacks are guilty of something simply due to their skin color. Maybe they could have gotten something accomplished by influencing the legislative process, if the right hadn't have demonized them as a cop-killing hate group.


Cops aren't killing black people indiscriminately and using that type of rhetoric is exactly how extremists like Micah Johnson come to be. Justice should be served and justice should be blind, it's not always the case with people in places of authority but also just because the mob demands blood doesn't mean that's what should happen.

BLM has done nothing to classify itself as a legitimate civil rights group, I don't think running into college libraries and making white girls cry because of their 'privilege' accomplishes anything positive at all. I don't think shutting down interstates accomplishes anything. Practical solutions are what we need and this group does not provide them, they are a vehicle to vent anger and hate at the police and maybe sometimes justifiably so but that doesn't make them any better. They can't talk about any practical solutions because then that would mean turning the mirror around on themselves, what legislation would change anything?

The culture of poverty and drugs are the root of the issue and the black community can never progress until those issues are taken care of but instead all we get are rants are about racist cops and guns.


Those examples of Black Lives Matter you rattled off are the only ones that get media scrutiny. The rally on Saturday at the Spokane courthouse was in fact peaceful - - I know, because my wife and I were there. But what was abundantly stated was, black Americans live in fear of the police in a way that white Americans do not. The man murdered in the Minnesota incident was not involved in any culture of drugs and crime, but he was still shot. Yes, there are black criminals, but no, not every confrontation between blacks and cops is justified. Sure, crime, drugs, and poverty in the black community are problems that have to be addressed, but so is racism and stereotyping of all blacks by the police.


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11 Jul 2016, 3:55 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Quote:
The Black Lives Matter Network advocates for Dignity, Justice, and Respect.

In the last few days, this country witnessed the recorded murders of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile at the hands of police, the latest victims in this country’s failed policing system. As we have done for decades, we marched and protested to highlight the urgent need to transform policing in America, to call for justice, transparency and accountability, and to demand that Black Lives Matter.


From the now-defunct blacklivesmatter.com website (using googlecache):

Quote:
28 - Every twenty-eight hours a black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.
35 - The average life expectancy for a black transgender woman is 35 years old.
6x - Black women are incarcerated at a rate 6 times that of white women.
74.1 - Percent of Black disabled people who are unemployed.
500,000 - Number of undocumented Black immigrants in the U.S.
60% - Percentage of Black girls sexually assaulted before age 18.


The first quote can be neglected easily. Note "murders". They've already shown that they're biased before even getting to the facts, if they ever do. The first incident is arguably not police brutality, and the second no one knows; they're complaining about justice before it's been investigated. It takes time. The judicial system will give accountability here if wrongdoing is found. But the system is guilty! You have to show that. If you think the legislation is wrong, well, that's why you talk to your representatives to pass new legislation. This is the exact same thing with Martin, Brown, and continuing. It's really a narrative based on false reasons for no clear purpose, and offers no real actual ways of fixing the problems they say exist.

The second:

1. doesn't give the reason for why and stats on the same with breakdowns; uses "murder" ("vigilante" too), which shows inherent bias
2. why?
3. again, why? Do they commit more crime? Is it because of racism? You have to prove which one it is
4. again, why? Disabled people usually are unemployed; that's what disability is; nonetheless, more jobs for people is good, yes
5. that's an immigration problem
6. to fix that would be to require more policing and incarceration; education only goes so far

Yeah, no.

If they want legitimacy, they need to do a better job.

For example:

"We want a full review of police procedure regarding proactive policing in the community, and whether it is beneficial for the community or not, in light of {valid reasons here}."

"We want a full review on police training, tactics and procedures regarding the use of lethal force, in light of {valid reasons here}."

"We want a full review on police education, training and procedures regarding policing in minority communities, in light of {insert valid reasons here}."

"We offer {these fixes that are backed up with verifiable data}."

et cetera

You need that "valid reason" and "fixes based on fact", however. Trotting out some lethal force events that don't actually show police brutality in the majority of them, doesn't count.



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11 Jul 2016, 4:30 am

The Governor of Michigan proposed one solution.

He wants to bring in thousands of immigrants with a Masters degree or better, or specialized education.

To build a tax base up in Detroit.

So, change the ghetto from the inside. Less blacks, and more educated people.



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11 Jul 2016, 4:37 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
The Governor of Michigan proposed one solution.

He wants to bring in thousands of immigrants with a Masters degree or better, or specialized education.

To build a tax base up in Detroit.

So, change the ghetto from the inside. Less blacks, and more educated people.


Do you at all recognize the racist aspect to this post?


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11 Jul 2016, 4:37 am

Psychology 101. People need their voices heard.

As long as no violence is being committed, I support the protests. I don't care about freeways being shut down. It's nothing compared to murder.

People are angry and they are going to make damn well sure their voices are heard. That's just basic psychology.

The more people condemn movements like Black Lives matter, the more they are going to feel invalidated and the more they are going to protest. You people want to end this madness, just let the protests continue and stop defending corrupt police officers.