Mike Pence's self described identity

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In his generally well recieved acceptence speech Pence self identified in this way "I''m a Christian, A Conservative, A Republican in that order". "American" was not in this list. This is troubling. If you have read my opinions on person first vs identiy first label controversy in Autism you know that I am very much for people indentifying as they please. There is nothing wrong per se about Pence's priorities and he is most likely is a loyal American but there is a problem when he is applying for the particular job he is applying for. He is not applying for 2nd in command of Christianity, nor second in command of the conservative movement or the republican party, he is applying for Vice President of the United States of AMERICA. The job requires country first. Few are criticizing him for "identity politics". Few are wondering in his own party if his religion means he is a terrorist or wants to impose New testiment law although I think there are plenty of progressives that think his evangelical Chirisanity is disqualifying.

People these days are wondering why America is falling. There are many reasons for this but at or near that top of list is that from leaders to opinion makers to average citizens America is not only not first it is not even a thought unless it can be used for personal gain in someway be it financial or ego.

I don't have any issue with his identification, plenty of people can be Christian and not advocate Theocracy.

I think you are reading too much into it.

Being an Evangelical Christian is disqualifying according to progressives? Would they say the same about Islam? What about Jimmy Carter?

A lot of them would not say that about Islam. That shows many progressives have similar double standards and hyprocracies as the other side. Good or bad what Pence did last night was identity politics.

But I am not reading to much into because I do believe Americans especially the powerful are putting country way too low on thier priority list and last night was an example of that. 70+ years ago when country was top priority we did not defeat Hitler like, we defeated actual Hitler and suicidal religious fanatics at that the same time.

I think ASPartOfMe has a very good point...though I differ on what I think it means.

I'm not sure if I think it's telling of Pence himself....but I do think it means troubling things for the GOP as a whole. I think the reason why he didn't classify American is simple; to him, and to perspectives like his, "Christian" "Republican" and "Conservative" are INHERENTLY American. The implication is so presumed that it doesn't need to be elaborated on...and that's modestly terrifying.

If Christian = American to him, it follows that Non-Christian = Non-American to him...and to perspectives like his.

That....is a problem.

Religion should not be seen as a bar to high office.

However, anyone whose religion would inspire them to implement dreadful, authoritarian policies is an utterly appalling candidate for high office.

Fortunately, as I understand it, the Vice President is largely a ceremonial figure unless he needs to cast a deciding vote or the President becomes unable to do their job. Unfortunately, if Pence became Vice President, America would have a real problem on its hands.

You are largely correct. But having little official power isn't the same as having no power; the VP still has diplomatic duties, unofficial though they may be, and they're usually still working on things in more unscripted and undocumented capacities. They still have a mighty soapbox which has the ear of the press by default, and their lack of documented power doesn't halt the perception of power in the minds of the American people.

There is no fortunately here, IMHO.

Well...

Given this statement...


Source: https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynsk ... .qwWeZmywo

... He should probably have started out with "complete scumbag" rather than "Christian"...

Pence was supporting the position of the president at the time on the issue which Colin Powell did not, believing in abstinence/non-promiscuity as a means of preventing the spread of STDs is not incorrect as those things do prevent that. A comment that he made 14 years ago makes him a complete scumbag?

Honestly I don't think he's completely wrong about the message sent to youth altho I think the comments are irrelevant and not wrong either on Colin Powell's part, the hypersexualization of our culture and the current state of the American family are not something to be proud of. I believe there is middle ground between the two positions.

I think it was a play on the word scumbag, which Pence doesn't seem to believe in. Instead he would rather deny human nature and pretend we can just not have sex.

I think the strength of sentiment that Viper used is pretty proportionate considering that discouraging condom use has killed millions of people. Obviously Pence is not responsible for that, but it was very well documented 14 years ago that he was completely wrong. It's also well documented that abstinence-only education doesn't work, it's an unrealistic approach.

In theory, you're right, it's a forgiveable transgression if he acknowledges he was wrong and has grown up.

It doesn't mean those aren't good values to have, I don't think hyper-promiscuity starting in early adolescence is something that should be encouraged as it currently is. I think there should be a lot more value put on marriage and commitment, over 40% of births in this country are illegitimate right now which is something I think we should be proud of. While some people might think single parenthood is personally empowering, it is devastating to children and major source of the societal issues that we face today. I think a child should have a mother and a father, does that make me scumbag? I think the people that scumbags are the people that abandon their children, I think the people that are scumbags are the people that while maybe there don't bother being a real parent to their kids by instilling values and a moral compass in them that will empower them to have success and happiness in their lives. This is the culture of misery.

How is he discouraging condom use? He's not saying have sex and don't use a condom.

You don't get to say it's not human nature by putting the word "hyper" in front of it. And it's not a problem at all if you use birth control. But religious conservatism is all about denying human nature.

Human nature and whats good for human society are not the same thing, moral values are not something found in nature. Nature dictates survival of the fittest even if the that means to rape, to enslave, or to kill so I don't see disapproving what you consider human nature as denying it but rather a recognition of that fact and I don't think it is wrong to aspire to rise above this law of the jungle.

Tell that to teenagers with raging hormones. You might as well get Americans to stop eating burgers.