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police violence and rape culture: 2 sides of the same coin?

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naturalplastic
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10 Aug 2016, 9:04 pm

Usually qualifiers are simply being honest.

Instead of saying "everyone who drives a Ford Explorer is a nimrod" as if you were issuing a Papal Bull, or a fatwa, coming from God that that "fact" is the absolute eternal truth, you say "in my experience all drivers of Ford Explorers are nimrods".

Or "its my understanding from my extensive research on the topic that drivers of Ford Explorers tend to be nimrods".

But if you declare that "humans usually have two arms" then you dont need qualifers because you are certain that what you're saying is an accepted fact (unless you're being sarcastic).

In some cases its not only unnessary to use qualifiers, its is necessary to NOT use them.

Like you wouldnt say "it is my opinion that Abraham Lincoln was the 16th president" because being the 16th president of the US is part of the dictionary definition of who Abe Lincoln was. So giving that definition as your "opinion" about Abe Lincoln just sounds like a ret*d tautology (or it sounds like being really sarcastic).



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10 Aug 2016, 9:06 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Within the PPR section, you have to make sure you "cover all bases." The level of rigor here, at times, resembles a debating society. But it does keep you sharp.

there's that


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10 Aug 2016, 9:08 pm

Lincoln WAS the 16th President----no ifs, ands, or buts.

And the Square Root of 9 is 3; no ifs, ands, or buts.



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10 Aug 2016, 9:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
And the Square Root of 9 is 3; no ifs, ands, or buts.

that depends on the base and axioms you're basing your algebra on :)

everything is relative, but yes, i'm just being silly. some contexts leave no room for doubt, and some things only cease to be absolute in unusual contexts


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10 Aug 2016, 9:15 pm

I don't know anybody who uses something other than Base 10.

Obviously LOL, if you're using a binary system.....then that wouldn't be true.



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10 Aug 2016, 9:18 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't know anybody who uses something other than Base 10.

i do know. americans :mrgreen:

jokes. jokes. imperial units are a pain the ass, but of course, it's not the same thing as mathematics


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10 Aug 2016, 9:24 pm

I meant in simple arithmetic.

I'm an American. I use Imperial units--but I'm pretty good at converting Imperial units to Metric units.

To figure out the price of petrol in the UK (gas in North America) in US dollars, one has to only multiply the litre price by 3.76 (there are 3.76 litres to a US gallon), then multiply the result by the exchange rate of the Pound vs. the Dollar.

The highest gas prices in the US, ever, was approximately $4.50 a US gallon. In the UK, one was paying about $10-11 a US gallon at one point.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 10 Aug 2016, 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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10 Aug 2016, 9:25 pm

There are 10 kinds of people in the World.

Those who understand binary, and those who do not!



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10 Aug 2016, 9:32 pm

Indeed that's true!

When I was in junior high, they used to teach Base 6 and Base 9; I don't know when they discontinued this.



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10 Aug 2016, 10:42 pm

LKL wrote:
Everything *anyone* says is what they 'think.' Saying 'I think' or 'I believe' is a cushion that is literally unnecessary but socially relevant.
http://franklyspeakingnews.com/2014/12/ ... ve-speech/


Eh, I think tone is more important than you're giving credit for, especially if you're going for persuasion or appealing to other people. You might be technically correct in the literal sense, but I'm less interested in that than I am in what is actually effective in the real world, an attitude I think a lot of AS people would do well to emulate.


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11 Aug 2016, 10:11 pm

anagram wrote:
there's a difference between a drive and a perspective. i said "an emotional perspective" (or something to that effect. i don't remember the exact wording). "logic is the beginning of wisdom", while emotion is what drives the search (and is also the end goal in itself, because life is what we experience, regardless of any objective reality). nobody will start discussions or come to conclusions on their own if they don't care about it. "it's not the one or the other that makes things bad, it's imbalance and incongruence", and things need to be acknowledged for what they are. there's venting and there's deliberating. different things

when you're venting, it simply doesn't matter if you're right or not. it's only supposed to be self-validation of what's bothering you. but when venting is expected to be taken as deliberation, different standards apply, and it's really a recipe for invalidation and conflict. because you essentially expose your feelings to be judged logically by others. feelings aren't subject to the domain of right-or-wrong. when they are subjected to it, that's when bad things happen

I agree with all of that. I don't think that it's any different for men and women, but I do think that men and women are judged differently for the same things.

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civilization itself is based on unsustainable imbalances, and has been from the very beginning. i think what distinguishes us as a species (even from, or particularly from, other hominids) is the illusion that we can control anything (even the very fundamentals of inequality) if we apply ourselves enough or sacrifice to the right gods, which in practice results in the continuous deterioration of the very environments we depend on or have come to depend on (both natural and human-made, both concrete and abstract)

Actually, superstitious behavior has been shown in pigs and other animals too ;p



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11 Aug 2016, 10:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
Everything *anyone* says is what they 'think.' Saying 'I think' or 'I believe' is a cushion that is literally unnecessary but socially relevant.
http://franklyspeakingnews.com/2014/12/ ... ve-speech/


Eh, I think tone is more important than you're giving credit for, especially if you're going for persuasion or appealing to other people. You might be technically correct in the literal sense, but I'm less interested in that than I am in what is actually effective in the real world, an attitude I think a lot of AS people would do well to emulate.

Easier said than done :wink:

I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?



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12 Aug 2016, 11:22 am

LKL wrote:
I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?


Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.

Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.


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12 Aug 2016, 4:17 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.


I've reached a point where I've stopped trying to emulate 'normal', whatever that is, and I give people a chance to deal with who I am. Or, of course, to choose not to. "Tiring" doesn't begin to explain the futility of trying to appear to be something other than myself, does not do justice to the hours (sometimes days) of quiet, solitary recovery required after intense social interactions spent under a mask. My approach filters people out of my life who would otherwise be sources of discomfort, anxiety or irritation.

With the obvious disclaimer that strategies I find effective may prove inexpedient for others.

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Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.


I can never be 100% certain regarding the tone of posts, which is why my first reaction to encountering what you might call a 'tone-trigger' is to simply ask for clarification. That said, most folks round here don't seem to deliberately obfuscate all that often. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm the unwitting victim of a battalion of trolls. :lol:



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19 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?


Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.

Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.

I'm guessing, but I think that some of my problem with interaction has to do with missed dominance cues. I get into trouble for doing exactly what you suggest - behaving as the others around me do; some of it is clearly missed gender cues, but I'm guessing that a lot of it is also that I come across as trying to be dominant when I really just don't care.