police violence and rape culture: 2 sides of the same coin?

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kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2016, 9:32 pm

Indeed that's true!

When I was in junior high, they used to teach Base 6 and Base 9; I don't know when they discontinued this.



Dox47
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10 Aug 2016, 10:42 pm

LKL wrote:
Everything *anyone* says is what they 'think.' Saying 'I think' or 'I believe' is a cushion that is literally unnecessary but socially relevant.
http://franklyspeakingnews.com/2014/12/ ... ve-speech/


Eh, I think tone is more important than you're giving credit for, especially if you're going for persuasion or appealing to other people. You might be technically correct in the literal sense, but I'm less interested in that than I am in what is actually effective in the real world, an attitude I think a lot of AS people would do well to emulate.


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LKL
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11 Aug 2016, 10:11 pm

anagram wrote:
there's a difference between a drive and a perspective. i said "an emotional perspective" (or something to that effect. i don't remember the exact wording). "logic is the beginning of wisdom", while emotion is what drives the search (and is also the end goal in itself, because life is what we experience, regardless of any objective reality). nobody will start discussions or come to conclusions on their own if they don't care about it. "it's not the one or the other that makes things bad, it's imbalance and incongruence", and things need to be acknowledged for what they are. there's venting and there's deliberating. different things

when you're venting, it simply doesn't matter if you're right or not. it's only supposed to be self-validation of what's bothering you. but when venting is expected to be taken as deliberation, different standards apply, and it's really a recipe for invalidation and conflict. because you essentially expose your feelings to be judged logically by others. feelings aren't subject to the domain of right-or-wrong. when they are subjected to it, that's when bad things happen

I agree with all of that. I don't think that it's any different for men and women, but I do think that men and women are judged differently for the same things.

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civilization itself is based on unsustainable imbalances, and has been from the very beginning. i think what distinguishes us as a species (even from, or particularly from, other hominids) is the illusion that we can control anything (even the very fundamentals of inequality) if we apply ourselves enough or sacrifice to the right gods, which in practice results in the continuous deterioration of the very environments we depend on or have come to depend on (both natural and human-made, both concrete and abstract)

Actually, superstitious behavior has been shown in pigs and other animals too ;p



LKL
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11 Aug 2016, 10:15 pm

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
Everything *anyone* says is what they 'think.' Saying 'I think' or 'I believe' is a cushion that is literally unnecessary but socially relevant.
http://franklyspeakingnews.com/2014/12/ ... ve-speech/


Eh, I think tone is more important than you're giving credit for, especially if you're going for persuasion or appealing to other people. You might be technically correct in the literal sense, but I'm less interested in that than I am in what is actually effective in the real world, an attitude I think a lot of AS people would do well to emulate.

Easier said than done :wink:

I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?



Dox47
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12 Aug 2016, 11:22 am

LKL wrote:
I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?


Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.

Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.


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adifferentname
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12 Aug 2016, 4:17 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.


I've reached a point where I've stopped trying to emulate 'normal', whatever that is, and I give people a chance to deal with who I am. Or, of course, to choose not to. "Tiring" doesn't begin to explain the futility of trying to appear to be something other than myself, does not do justice to the hours (sometimes days) of quiet, solitary recovery required after intense social interactions spent under a mask. My approach filters people out of my life who would otherwise be sources of discomfort, anxiety or irritation.

With the obvious disclaimer that strategies I find effective may prove inexpedient for others.

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Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.


I can never be 100% certain regarding the tone of posts, which is why my first reaction to encountering what you might call a 'tone-trigger' is to simply ask for clarification. That said, most folks round here don't seem to deliberately obfuscate all that often. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm the unwitting victim of a battalion of trolls. :lol:



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19 Aug 2016, 12:31 pm

Dox47 wrote:
LKL wrote:
I can't even figure out when I'm supposed to say 'hello' to someone. First? Second? Does it have to do with social dominance? If so, whom am I supposed to see as dominant? Should I fake it if someone I don't respect is technically in a higher position...?


Why so much concern about social hierarchy? I just try to mirror what everyone else seems to be doing, remind myself not to monologue, and keep and eye out of the handful of cues that I've memorized indicating impatience or annoyance. Works well enough for me, though it is kind of tiring to maintain for any length of time.

Online is different of course, but it's here that I make such a point of qualification, since I can feel myself reacting to the tone of other people's posts and actually break them down to see what it is that's causing the reaction, and alter my own posting style accordingly. I noticed early on that I didn't like people who's writing seemed overly sure of their opinions, so I adapted my own to include qualifiers, as I try to avoid doing things that would irritate me if done to me, which seems like common courtesy.

I'm guessing, but I think that some of my problem with interaction has to do with missed dominance cues. I get into trouble for doing exactly what you suggest - behaving as the others around me do; some of it is clearly missed gender cues, but I'm guessing that a lot of it is also that I come across as trying to be dominant when I really just don't care.