My 17 yr old with autism is cyber stalking girls

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pvj
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10 Aug 2016, 12:32 pm

Chronos wrote:
pvj wrote:
Thank you everyone for getting back to me.

It's all snowballed so quickly that the severity of it is just barely sinking in.

I've had the crisis team out to the house twice when he threatened suicide and became intimidating towards me - the second time he was taken to the hospital. He calmed down fairly quickly, started meds and spent a few days with his dad before coming home, so they weren't too concerned. I don't know if they fully grasped the stalking piece. The psychiatrist believes he suffers from depression and anxiety and that because of the autism it's manifesting itself as rage and obsession. He said once the depression is decreased the rest should resolve.

I can't get him to resume therapy but he's complying with meds and monthly psych visits for his med checks.

I thought he was doing a lot better - the anger was totally gone - he was apologetic. He really wanted this last girl to forgive him (they been friends since they were little) and promised he would never ask her to be his girlfriend again or obsessively text or ignore her "Noes". I told him if he gave her a month or two of no contact, she might be receptive but he had to give her space.

He seemed to accept this. But in the past few days his anxiety has been ramping up and tonight he had a minor melt down and he brought up the girl again with the old urgency - anger was clearly bubbling and I was afraid he would lose it again. Luckily, he agreed to go to his dad's house.

I took the opportunity to check his social media - he's back at texting all kinds of girls and young women, ignoring their boundaries and expressing this entitled anger that frightens me - it sounds like one of those guys - like that young man who drove into the crown of college kids in Northern California last year.

You are right - I have to take him off of social media - zero. But I'm scared - will he attack me? Will he run away in the middle of the night when I'm asleep? He did this one time - went to a super market and looked for someone to take him home - he's very, very naive. From the research I've done, it doesn't seem like there are any great treatments for cyberstalkers.

I could make him stay with his dad for the near future but it's all so sudden - it seems cruel. He normally only sees his dad a few times a year (due to his dad being somewhat abusive in the past) and is with me the rest of the time. But I'm afraid of him - I think the loss the internet is going to trigger a lot of rage - it's pretty much his whole world.

It's surreal. I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe this is my son. Will I ever get the kid I knew back?

I'm praying when he returns to school he will meet kids who are receptive to his friendship in the special ed classes he's going to be in - this all started because he wanted a girlfriend and he only knew neuro-typical girls in his former school and they weren't interested in a disabled kid. He's not asking for sex but rather pleading for friendship. He's a 6'2", 200lb ten year old and I think in his mind he's not a young man capable of being scary - he's a cute little boy who can get what he wants by asking a million times.


Is he of normal intelligence?


No, he's what was once called moderately mentally ret*d - so I guess now you would say moderately intellectually impaired? His iq is around 60.



pvj
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10 Aug 2016, 12:37 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
There is a book that I have seen people recommend called, 5 is Against the Law, which I have not read, but is supposed to be a clear explanation for things you are not allowed to do. Maybe something like this would help.

Alternately, I wonder if curating what women/girls on the Internet say about stalkers might help, so he gets a little Theory of Mind help.

I would run both these ideas by his therapist and make sure this is safe and a good idea to do, given what else is going on.

In my mind, knowing that this is not considered a successful tactic, is disrespected by others by making him look desperate, and is scary -- are all things he ought to know, but you have to make sure it is safe, and that it would not somehow make him redouble his efforts or get depressed or angry from it.

For some that would be enough to know, but I could see someone else responding very easily by thinking something along the lines of what else is he supposed to do, b/c he wants a girlfriend and can't get one. The ultimate goal of course is to let him know, gently, that he is not entitled to a girlfriend, and that the response to not getting one, is to learn to be OK without one.

The other thing I would want him to know--is that being that desperate for a girlfriend (In addition to stalking issues) presents other problems. I know many people who are so desperate to be pair-bonded that they lower their standards and will go out with anyone. So, it really is a life-skill for everyone to know that other people are going to be picky, and they ought to be picky, too ---and that being comfortable as a single person is important.


Great ideas - thank you. Honestly, he's been told many times what girls think of this behavior (his older sister was cyber stalked for a number or years to the point where we had to have her name legally changed and he knows all this and was quite worried about her and protective). He basically doesn't see himself as one of those people.

In general he has believed and taken to heart other advice he's gotten about social behavior but this one area - he's stuck in a groove and refuses to believe what people are telling him. He sees it as "not giving up" on his dreams when he won't accept a girl doesn't like him. So he has to keep trying because to his mind perseverance will pay off - he sort of mixing up his life lessons and misapplying them.



pvj
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10 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
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My advice would be to take him to the police station and have a police officer show him the inside of a jail cell, just as a demonstration. A cell without computers, without fun, without freedom and tell him that this will be his life unless he changes his behaviour.


I don't recommend this for Americans. You don't want to give local police the impression your son is some kind of menace, given how trigger-happy and uneducated about ASD they may be.


I like the idea of taking him to the police station but given recent activity by the police I agree, it's not safe. I will never call the police during one of his meltdowns because of this.



pvj
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10 Aug 2016, 12:50 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Wait...you started out by saying he is a "17 yr old" and then you said he is "ten." Exactly how old is he?

If you are going to go the route of taking away his internet, I think you are going to have to have the internet removed from your house as a whole. He will figure a way around it if not. I also recommend you have someone with you who is able to physically intervene if necessary.

I would also hesitate to bring him to a jail, for the same reason Yippy noted. For as much as I respect and support our police, it has become a scary world, and a large, threatening man--even if he is really a boy--is potentially going to evoke a defensive response from an officer if anything ever goes down.

You said the one girl has been his friend since he was young. Would there be any way she would be willing to speak with him face-to-face with his therapist present?


He's 17 but with the mentality of a ten year old in some ways - the sex drive of a teenager - it's a lot of different levels depending on the aspect of his development but chronologically 17.

I think this girl might participate in therapy but honestly I'm hesitant - she's only 16 years old and the whole ordeal was overwhelming for her. She tried for months to explain to him that she wanted his friendship only and continued to spend time with him twice a week, even though it must not have been the most enjoyable thing for her as she's a neurotypical active and popular girl, not to mention the entire time he was slipping in requests that she be his girlfriend.

Her mother tried talking to him. Her older sister tried. It just fed the obsession and he harassed all of them with dozens of texts, calls and messages (one day he sent 200 messages). They felt they had to cut him off with the idea that it wouldn't be permanent. We all felt that he needed a few months of no contact to hopefully break the obsession.

Taking away the internet will cause rage - no doubt. I talked to his behavioral health case worker today and she recommended doing it in increments so he doesn't go ballistic. They are going to set us up with intensive in home therapy, which he will likely refuse to participate in, but hopefully this can help some - these are behaviorists so I expect they will have some good insights.



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10 Aug 2016, 12:54 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
Wait...you started out by saying he is a "17 yr old" and then you said he is "ten." Exactly how old is he?


I interpreted 10 as his emotional age, and 17 as his chronological age. 2/3 chronological age would be about 11, so it made sense to me, as that is about the ratio my son has.


Exactly.

But it's all over the map - he reads at fifth grade level but does math much lower. But, he's absolutely girl crazy like a typical teen and likes more typical teenage media, but also really babyish media - I suspect this incongruity is a piece of why he can't process it all.



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10 Aug 2016, 12:55 pm

AspE wrote:
Take away his internet access, his phone, everything. Minors don't have a right to the internet. If he runs away, deal with that as a separate issue. Until he's 18, he can't do anything. Maybe put a tracking device in his shoe just in case.


I didn't know there was such a thing as a tracking device that could be concealed in a shoe - that's good idea.



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10 Aug 2016, 1:03 pm

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(his older sister was cyber stalked for a number or years to the point where we had to have her name legally changed and he knows all this and was quite worried about her and protective)


I wonder if this might have caused him to get the impression that stalking is common and even somewhat expected (like jaywalking or speeding). Maybe that's why he doesn't see what he's doing as a big deal. He may even see it as a rite of passage, the way some young people see drinking alcohol.



pvj
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10 Aug 2016, 1:17 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
(his older sister was cyber stalked for a number or years to the point where we had to have her name legally changed and he knows all this and was quite worried about her and protective)


I wonder if this might have caused him to get the impression that stalking is common and even somewhat expected (like jaywalking or speeding). Maybe that's why he doesn't see what he's doing as a big deal. He may even see it as a rite of passage, the way some young people see drinking alcohol.


Could be. When it was happening to his sister he was outraged. He said he wanted to beat the guy up. But with him he feels entitled.

He had very rough year last year when this all started. The prior school year was wonderful. He had a group of about five friends, some with disabilities and some without. They went to the movies and the mall together after school, texted and face booked with each other. Then every single one of his friends left the small private school he was attending and he was not accepted by the remaining and new kids in his age cohort. It's very tiny school so there were maybe 6-8 high schoolers total - they not only excluded him, they also occasionally made digs about his "baby shows" and toys. That's when he started searching on line for a girlfriend and fixating on a few girls in our real life. The last one got a little creepy but I took him to therapy and it was tapering off. Then, this most recent girl moved back to our town after several years away. They had kept in touch over the years and he was elated when she came back - perhaps in his mind all of the pent up isolation and rejection were going to be addressed by her becoming his girlfriend.

He stopped going to school - refused and given how he was being treated by his peers it seemed best to switch schools rather than have him endure another year of being treated so poorly.

Big issue is the girl he's fixated on will be attending his new school - it's a huge school and likely they won't see much of each other but I think the stress and anticipation of a new school and seeing her again and fueling more of the obsessive stalking. It's such a mess.

If he drops out of this school, I've decided to place him in a small group home with other kids with similar disabilities - he'll have structure, companionship and supervision. It feels like his childhood is coming to an abrupt and ugly end.



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10 Aug 2016, 3:16 pm

pvj wrote:
In general he has believed and taken to heart other advice he's gotten about social behavior but this one area - he's stuck in a groove and refuses to believe what people are telling him. He sees it as "not giving up" on his dreams when he won't accept a girl doesn't like him. So he has to keep trying because to his mind perseverance will pay off - he sort of mixing up his life lessons and misapplying them.


You know, this is at least partially a function of culturally mixed messages and I think it is harder for non-NT brains to parse it. So many TV shows and movies glorify persistence and the notion that if you keep trying or switch your glasses for contacts, or something equally ridiculous. you will get the girl or boy of your dreams. I don't know if this has slowed down any in modern media, but I recall that message being pretty pervasive, growing up. So, it is not necessarily even a failure of over-generalization, but taking the message of movies and TV pretty literally in the "appropriate" context.

That said, you can try focusing on the differences between fictional stories and real life, and maybe that would help.

I don't know if a resource like this already exists that could save you time, but you could take a few fictional scenarios from popular culture (especially if you know he is familiar with them) and then next to them or underneath show what would happen in real life if the protagonist acted that way.

I would also ask him in a calm moment (again, with the OK of his therapist) why he thinks what he is doing is different from his sister's stalker. I am guessing his answer is going to be b/c he is different and he is a nice guy etc. At that point you can say the girls who don't know him don't know that and are going to be convinced he isn't based on his behavior; and that the girl who used to like him is now scared and creeped out. You probably have already done this, but maybe if it is revisited and approached on an incremental level it may start to sink in.

In addition, I am not sure what would be a persuasive way to do it, but I would try to tell him that if a girl has to be nagged and harassed to give him a chance, it is not going to work out. People can be great people individually and not compatible romantically due to any number of reasons, and romance is not a thing that should be forced.



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10 Aug 2016, 5:28 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
pvj wrote:
In general he has believed and taken to heart other advice he's gotten about social behavior but this one area - he's stuck in a groove and refuses to believe what people are telling him. He sees it as "not giving up" on his dreams when he won't accept a girl doesn't like him. So he has to keep trying because to his mind perseverance will pay off - he sort of mixing up his life lessons and misapplying them.


You know, this is at least partially a function of culturally mixed messages and I think it is harder for non-NT brains to parse it. So many TV shows and movies glorify persistence and the notion that if you keep trying or switch your glasses for contacts, or something equally ridiculous. you will get the girl or boy of your dreams. I don't know if this has slowed down any in modern media, but I recall that message being pretty pervasive, growing up. So, it is not necessarily even a failure of over-generalization, but taking the message of movies and TV pretty literally in the "appropriate" context.

That said, you can try focusing on the differences between fictional stories and real life, and maybe that would help.

I don't know if a resource like this already exists that could save you time, but you could take a few fictional scenarios from popular culture (especially if you know he is familiar with them) and then next to them or underneath show what would happen in real life if the protagonist acted that way.

I would also ask him in a calm moment (again, with the OK of his therapist) why he thinks what he is doing is different from his sister's stalker. I am guessing his answer is going to be b/c he is different and he is a nice guy etc. At that point you can say the girls who don't know him don't know that and are going to be convinced he isn't based on his behavior; and that the girl who used to like him is now scared and creeped out. You probably have already done this, but maybe if it is revisited and approached on an incremental level it may start to sink in.

In addition, I am not sure what would be a persuasive way to do it, but I would try to tell him that if a girl has to be nagged and harassed to give him a chance, it is not going to work out. People can be great people individually and not compatible romantically due to any number of reasons, and romance is not a thing that should be forced.


Yes, great insight - these feel good teen love stories, sitcoms, heck, even grown up entertainment, seem to rely on the trope of relatable, awkward nerd who gets the girl by perseverance - making all the crazy antics, trouble, and disappointment pay off in the end. Makes sense that a kid who is very literal and has a hard time understanding that fiction is a construct would think this is how real life is.

He watches a lot of Youtube programming - not sure if you've yet had the (dis)pleasure of "Angry Grandpa" or "McJuggernuggets" but my son is a devotee and he will not believe it's contrived - no matter how far fetched the episode - he truly believes it all.

I guess it's going to be a lot of little conversations and pointing out real-life stalking situations in the hopes he gets it. In the meantime I'm going to try to cut back the internet/phone access in the evening so that he is forced to either go to sleep or find something more benign to do with himself.

On a high note - he went to an orientation at his new school today and came back very excited and happy. I'm praying this huge public school will be a confidence booster. He'll be in special ed classrooms most of the day so he'll have the opportunity to make friends on his wavelength rather than continually flailing in the NT pond.



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10 Aug 2016, 9:30 pm

pvj wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
pvj wrote:
In general he has believed and taken to heart other advice he's gotten about social behavior but this one area - he's stuck in a groove and refuses to believe what people are telling him. He sees it as "not giving up" on his dreams when he won't accept a girl doesn't like him. So he has to keep trying because to his mind perseverance will pay off - he sort of mixing up his life lessons and misapplying them.


You know, this is at least partially a function of culturally mixed messages and I think it is harder for non-NT brains to parse it. So many TV shows and movies glorify persistence and the notion that if you keep trying or switch your glasses for contacts, or something equally ridiculous. you will get the girl or boy of your dreams. I don't know if this has slowed down any in modern media, but I recall that message being pretty pervasive, growing up. So, it is not necessarily even a failure of over-generalization, but taking the message of movies and TV pretty literally in the "appropriate" context.

That said, you can try focusing on the differences between fictional stories and real life, and maybe that would help.

I don't know if a resource like this already exists that could save you time, but you could take a few fictional scenarios from popular culture (especially if you know he is familiar with them) and then next to them or underneath show what would happen in real life if the protagonist acted that way.

I would also ask him in a calm moment (again, with the OK of his therapist) why he thinks what he is doing is different from his sister's stalker. I am guessing his answer is going to be b/c he is different and he is a nice guy etc. At that point you can say the girls who don't know him don't know that and are going to be convinced he isn't based on his behavior; and that the girl who used to like him is now scared and creeped out. You probably have already done this, but maybe if it is revisited and approached on an incremental level it may start to sink in.

In addition, I am not sure what would be a persuasive way to do it, but I would try to tell him that if a girl has to be nagged and harassed to give him a chance, it is not going to work out. People can be great people individually and not compatible romantically due to any number of reasons, and romance is not a thing that should be forced.


Yes, great insight - these feel good teen love stories, sitcoms, heck, even grown up entertainment, seem to rely on the trope of relatable, awkward nerd who gets the girl by perseverance - making all the crazy antics, trouble, and disappointment pay off in the end. Makes sense that a kid who is very literal and has a hard time understanding that fiction is a construct would think this is how real life is.

He watches a lot of Youtube programming - not sure if you've yet had the (dis)pleasure of "Angry Grandpa" or "McJuggernuggets" but my son is a devotee and he will not believe it's contrived - no matter how far fetched the episode - he truly believes it all.

I guess it's going to be a lot of little conversations and pointing out real-life stalking situations in the hopes he gets it. In the meantime I'm going to try to cut back the internet/phone access in the evening so that he is forced to either go to sleep or find something more benign to do with himself.

On a high note - he went to an orientation at his new school today and came back very excited and happy. I'm praying this huge public school will be a confidence booster. He'll be in special ed classrooms most of the day so he'll have the opportunity to make friends on his wavelength rather than continually flailing in the NT pond.


I know there are programs that often host social events for people with developmental disabilities, and this is where many with Down's Syndrome often find boyfriends and girlfriends. Perhaps one of these programs would be good for him as he might find someone there who would like to date him, and who is on his level of cognitive development.



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10 Aug 2016, 9:48 pm

Thanks Chronos,

I've tried mightily to get him to attend these events. He doesn't want to date a girl with special needs, he tells me. I almost had him there one night, an old friend of his from school was going to join him, and just as we were walking out the door he bailed. He's like that - he gets an anxiety attack or something and basically runs under the covers. Just shuts down.

His new school, which he's supposed to start tomorrow (although he's very anxious and keeps telling me he won't go), will have him in mainly special ed classes, so he's going to be with a mix of boys and girls that are his age with disabilities - hopefully at similar levels of functioning. If there's a connection - at least to a friend, if not a girl friend, I think he might get back to the land of the living and out of his internet fantasy world.



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11 Aug 2016, 10:13 pm

pvj wrote:
Thanks Chronos,

I've tried mightily to get him to attend these events. He doesn't want to date a girl with special needs, he tells me. I almost had him there one night, an old friend of his from school was going to join him, and just as we were walking out the door he bailed. He's like that - he gets an anxiety attack or something and basically runs under the covers. Just shuts down.

His new school, which he's supposed to start tomorrow (although he's very anxious and keeps telling me he won't go), will have him in mainly special ed classes, so he's going to be with a mix of boys and girls that are his age with disabilities - hopefully at similar levels of functioning. If there's a connection - at least to a friend, if not a girl friend, I think he might get back to the land of the living and out of his internet fantasy world.


Well if he has that might insight that he can tell the difference between someone with special needs and someone without them, personally I would tell him that if he doesn't want to date a girl with special needs, then he should stop acting like a boy with special needs, and stop harassing girls. But then again I'm not a parent.



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11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Chronos wrote:
Well if he has that might insight that he can tell the difference between someone with special needs and someone without them, personally I would tell him that if he doesn't want to date a girl with special needs, then he should stop acting like a boy with special needs, and stop harassing girls. But then again I'm not a parent.


I don't think this is a possible idea, he was saying that the son had moderate intellectual disability. Is the son able to function independently in some capacity?

But I'm not trying to be a buzzkill.



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12 Aug 2016, 12:16 am

He is also at an age where his entire body is going through a very rushed transformation... So hormonal and testosterone levels could be through the roof and he might not understand whats happening to him or that his new adulthood biology has gone into a major kickdrive...Puberty can be tough for anyone and any sex, but as a guess it might be even more intensified with many on the spectrum due to their increased emotional states... A basic blood test might show the signs of this influx to his system and if they are elevated might be able to tone down the excessiveness of this new found bodily chemistry to levels he is able to cope with... It might not be that at all or it maybe as simple as that... Just my quick 5 cents! I hope things work out and can find a solution!, i understand more than you, realize!:)



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12 Aug 2016, 2:27 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Well if he has that might insight that he can tell the difference between someone with special needs and someone without them, personally I would tell him that if he doesn't want to date a girl with special needs, then he should stop acting like a boy with special needs, and stop harassing girls. But then again I'm not a parent.


I don't think this is a possible idea, he was saying that the son had moderate intellectual disability. Is the son able to function independently in some capacity?

But I'm not trying to be a buzzkill.


He's able to function independently to some degree - he's not prone to erratic or unsafe behavior when he's not having a melt down.

He started school on Thursday and is there again today. Both days were very challenging in terms of getting him to school, and night-before anxiety, but he's there. He does seem to be excited about the place but he's totally preoccupied with whether the girl he's obsessed with will be his friend again.

I talked to her mom and the girl is willing to extend some level of friendship to him again but her mom is concerned my son will go overboard so I don't know if she's going to allow any in-person get togethers. The girl is going to text my son and tell him she's not allowed to socialize right now because her parents want her to focus on school and work but maybe next month she will be able to hang out. I'm hoping I can get them on the same bus or that the girl will sit with him at lunch once a week and that will placate him, while he hopefully builds new friendships.

If he continues to have regular meltdowns I'm going to have him stay with his dad for a stretch - maybe a month - I don't know. I'm barely functioning due to the stress of all of this and I really need a break. He's been obsessing about girls and melting down since around December and it's worn me down.