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GnosticBishop
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15 Sep 2016, 2:23 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
It seems people would rather reinvent and reinterpret their existing god, then make a new one. They are probably just comfortable with what they got, so they tweak the parts they don't like.


This.
Basically what I, and several others above have also said.

They stop "inventing" gods centuries ago, and they just reinterpret the same monotheistic Abrahamic god different ways.

And that's also what the OP is doing: demanding that we go back to some gnostic interpretation of the same god already worshipped by Christians and Jews.


???

You must have missed the post above where I said this.

Perhaps this is a phase that mankind most go through before we turn to the only gods that mater. Ourselves.

Jesus asked, have ye forgotten that ye are gods?

Most did back then and it will take time for modern people to recognize that they are the only gods they will ever know.

It is true that I think we should think more as the ancients did before Christians and Muslims became idol worshipers instead of god seekers.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

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DL



GnosticBishop
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15 Sep 2016, 2:27 pm

Grischa wrote:
whether you create Gods on the outside (orthodox christians, jews, muslims) on on the inside (gnostics), it is all even to me.
the important thing:
after dead ther is no God
there is only Goodbye
you take it with pride or not


A realist. Refreshing.

I see a huge difference between the outside gods and the ones we create within us.

Most of us do not have genocidal son murdering gods in us or gods that cannot tolerate other gods.

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GnosticBishop
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15 Sep 2016, 2:36 pm

GGPViper wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
And that's also what the OP is doing: demanding that we go back to some gnostic interpretation of the same god already worshipped by Christians and Jews.

Well, GnosticBishop also seems to have introduced an interpretation of his own...

... one which apparently obligates him to insert childish ad hominem insults at the end of most of his posts...

Regardless, I fail to see what this interpretation (even the non-insulting kind) has to offer which hasn't been said with greater rigour and elegance by Buddhism... several centures prior to the 2nd century CE invention of Gnostic Christianity...


True that the notion of man's supremacy over the gods is older than Gnostic Christianity. I actually do not know who originated that true notion. I guess it was whoever first recognized that without people, the gods are useless and worthless.

Ad hominem insults is not what I engage in. I insult those who follow poor morals thanks to their beliefs. I generally give an argument that can be argued along with the insult.

Do you respect the present mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam?

Are there ideologies not worth insulting since those ideologies are homophobic and misogynous and deny women and gays equality?

Are those religions worthy of respect given that they both grew their religions by violence and the sword instead of good deeds?

Show us what kind of morals you have with your answer.

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DL



GnosticBishop
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15 Sep 2016, 2:57 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Quote:
Do you consider Communism to be a religion, in the sense of a personality cult?


I see little separation between religious theologies and political philosophies. They are both seeking or preaching for the best rules and laws to live life by. Both religions and political systems are designed for social manipulation and control and as such, all people should have a healthy disrespect for them.

Both systems are an insult to man's freedom and the least f each we must suffer the better.

Secular law and not religious laws are followed by most in the West because secular law is less flawed and better written than what any god has given us.

Quote:
Also, weren't Enlightenment ideals personified in figures of Greco-Roman gods, in courthouses resembling pagan temples?


All religions have pagan roots. If Christianity and Islam had not grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds, they would still be considered pagan.

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Don't ancestor worshipers create gods, in the act of reproduction, and aren't humanists engaged in hubris?


Yes to your first and I cannot answer your last without more details.

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I mean, none of the people, who you consider to be so superstitious, think of themselves as being the actual deities.


Of course not. They fear god.

Gnostic Christians do not see themselves as deities. We do see the god I am a person. Most just do not understand how we are using that title.

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.

This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Quote:
Or, what do Gnostics believe, about magical thinking?


We do not believe in anything that has to do with the supernatural and that is why we do not put any gods above man.
Quote:
"Magical thinking is the attribution of causal or synchronistic relationships between actions and events which seemingly cannot be justified by reason and observation."
-- Wikipedia


Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

Gnostic Christians, as free thinkers, put logic and reason above faith and all fantasy. We agree with Martin Luther in that those attributes are the enemy of faith as faith is not wanting to face reality.

Quote:
For instance, Communists have said prayers of thanks, to their leaders, for medical aid.


Thanks is good. Praying is a waste of time. Why should a people pray for what they are willing to pay for?

Quote:
What do Gnostics consider to have creative ability, as in, ex nihilo, or what is attributed to be the first cause of all things?


We agree with science on this. There is evidence for a big bang while there is no evidence for a creator.

If a god wanted us to believe in his creating ability, all he would need do is pop up. Since no god is popping up tp take the credit or blame for creation, that is evidence against the notion of a creator god. IMO.

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DL



friedmacguffins
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15 Sep 2016, 7:26 pm

Quote:
there is no evidence for a creator.


Again, and this is a literal question, why are you considered a branch of Christianity?



GnosticBishop
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16 Sep 2016, 9:32 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
Quote:
there is no evidence for a creator.


Again, and this is a literal question, why are you considered a branch of Christianity?


Those who think we are a branch of Christianity are wrong.

If we were, then it is to those who think we are to explain why Christianity decimated us and burned most of our scriptures.

If you think we are a branch of Christianity, then show why you think Christianity would chop off one of it's own religion and call us heretics.

We call Yahweh a vile demiurge so saying we follow such a god is foolish.

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DL



friedmacguffins
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16 Sep 2016, 9:49 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Gnostic Christianity


GnosticBishop wrote:
there is no evidence for a creator.


friedmacguffins wrote:
Again, and this is a literal question, why are you considered a branch of Christianity?


GnosticBishop wrote:
Those who think we are a branch of Christianity are wrong.

If we were, then it is to those who think we are to explain why Christianity decimated us and burned most of our scriptures.

If you think we are a branch of Christianity, then show why you think Christianity would chop off one of it's own religion and call us heretics.

We call Yahweh a vile demiurge so saying we follow such a god is foolish.

Regards
DL


Then, you might be considered Luciferians.

This sounds like the general line of discussion, in which negative qualities are attributed to the Abrahamic God, such as he is jealous, vengeful, and racist.

Lucifer is said to have illumined mankind, in the Garden, with the ability to disobey -- to rebel, against Yahweh's tyranny?



GnosticBishop
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16 Sep 2016, 4:54 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Gnostic Christianity


GnosticBishop wrote:
there is no evidence for a creator.


friedmacguffins wrote:
Again, and this is a literal question, why are you considered a branch of Christianity?


GnosticBishop wrote:
Those who think we are a branch of Christianity are wrong.

If we were, then it is to those who think we are to explain why Christianity decimated us and burned most of our scriptures.

If you think we are a branch of Christianity, then show why you think Christianity would chop off one of it's own religion and call us heretics.

We call Yahweh a vile demiurge so saying we follow such a god is foolish.

Regards
DL


Then, you might be considered Luciferians.

This sounds like the general line of discussion, in which negative qualities are attributed to the Abrahamic God, such as he is jealous, vengeful, and racist.

Lucifer is said to have illumined mankind, in the Garden, with the ability to disobey -- to rebel, against Yahweh's tyranny?


This is a Jewish myth and they see Jesus as an adversary, obstacle or stumbling block. Accuser is often used to describe her as well. I think of her as a loyal opposition.

The Jews see Eden as our place of elevation and not the fall that Christians call it which reverses the original thinking.

I think the Jews have it right.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/ ... -theodicy/

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants".

I think that anyone who preaches that the tyranny of god, or any other tyrant should be fought against is A 1.

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DL