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Misslizard
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06 Sep 2016, 8:46 pm

During a lesson in meditation we were to visualize a specific Buddhist deity,then imagine the deity within ourselves.The teacher was specific that the deities did not exist but were symbolic representations of what is in ourselves.We were suppose to pray to them,I asked the monk if that meant I was praying to myself.His answer.Yes.
While this isn't Buddhist ,it sums it up well.

I sent my soul into the invisible
~

I sent my soul into the invisible,

Some letter of that after life to spell.

And by and by my soul returned to me

And answered, I myself am heaven and hell.

From the Rubiyat of Omar Khayyam.


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GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:14 pm

Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


Because you don't know what you are talking about. Gods aren't invented, they are redefined. We STILL invent new gods by the reasoning gave here, if Allah is a different god from Yaweh, then any modern Christian notion of god is much different from that as the language is different and so are the attributes. Otherwise Allah is literally the same god as Yaweh, it's just slightly different theology, and a different language. Christians in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah. Saying that Allah is the last invented god is sure ignorance by any measure. Countless gods have actually been invented since then, like the Wiccan pantheon.


Wiccan is hardly new but to compare Yahweh who has a vague heaven to an Allah who is only interested in the sexual gratification of his sheeple is inventing a new god.

That god, like all others, will die eventually.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What several (including myself) said above: in the ancient times each local culture independently invented a pantheon of gods for its local little valley. And then the trend was to winnow down the number of deities down in each culture (from polytheism down to monotheism), and also gods came to be thought of as universal (the gods we conceive of are the Gods of the whole world, not just of our locality).So we went from a thousand isolated tribes each with its own family of dozens of gods down to one deity for the whole planet (and the debate switched arguing and fighting over the nature of that one god).

So we already have a surplus overstocked warehouse of unused deities. So why invent new ones?


To find a good one with morals that exceed what the mainstream presently follow.

That is a fairly easy task.

Regards
DL


You're not talking about "inventing a new god". What you are talking about reinterpreting the existing Abrahamic god with modified theology.


No. I prefer that Christians recognize that they follow a vile demiurge and seek a better god.

Take all Yahweh's immoral laws and policies out of scriptures and there is nothing left of Yahweh. The same would apply to Allah, the Qur'an and Sharia.

Regards
DL



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07 Sep 2016, 12:22 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
I do believe that we were the original Chrestians whose name was usurped by Christianity.


I am the real gnostic, whose name you have usurped. :wink:

Also, invented the Chevron symbol, and candy cane -- a Kim Jong Il figure, born under double rainbows.

At least, that's how I like to remember it.

The fact that I don't actually share any nameable beliefs with these people proves nothing. Don't judge me just because I like to use the same terminology.


The terminology is what you give and what you are judged on. There is nothing else to judge if we ignore your words and terms.

Do not fear judgement as that is how we all learn and grow.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Sep 2016, 12:30 pm

Misslizard wrote:
During a lesson in meditation we were to visualize a specific Buddhist deity,then imagine the deity within ourselves.The teacher was specific that the deities did not exist but were symbolic representations of what is in ourselves.We were suppose to pray to them,I asked the monk if that meant I was praying to myself.His answer.Yes.
While this isn't Buddhist ,it sums it up well.

I sent my soul into the invisible
~

I sent my soul into the invisible,

Some letter of that after life to spell.

And by and by my soul returned to me

And answered, I myself am heaven and hell.

From the Rubiyat of Omar Khayyam.


If you look up Jung and Freud's Father Complex, you would see Freud saying basically the same thing.

I recommend meditation myself as a way to activate our pineal gland, which to the ancients, was the key to activation our right hemispheres and open us up to visions, which are just insight and the best advice we can find at any given time.

Regards
DL



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09 Sep 2016, 1:50 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

The ancients were quite good at inventing new gods. The bible shows that the Jews invented many gods before deciding that god could not be defined and settled for “I am“, as the greatest expression of god. “I am” as spoken as a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

Jews, in their oral tradition, gave man the last word in what god and his policies were to be. They accepted that the man they chose as head Rabbi of their Divine council had the power to overrule their written tradition. Man’s words, not an imaginary god, had the final say on policy. Man was supreme and not one of the imaginary gods.

Christianity then changed much of the morals and policies of their newly invented god, Yahweh, and also transferred the power of god to a man. Jesus. Jesus was now placed at the power seat at the right hand of his newly invented god and placed Yahweh in the right hemisphere of the brain, as shown in the art of the day as depicted by Michelangelo in his creation painting in the Vatican.

Islam then invented Allah, and so far, rightfully named him the last god to be invented. Foolish but true to date.

I see that search for a god as a search for the best laws and rules to live life by. After all, we cannot follow an imaginary god and can only follow the laws and rules that those imaginary gods has spoken, recognizing of course, that only a person can speak those laws and rules and that it was really a wise person who was uttering those words.

Gnostic Christians always saw those invented gods, specifically Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, as immoral and not worthy of us and that is why they named those gods as immoral and vile demiurges. This is not to say that those demiurges did not have some good policies but only says that a better god could and should be invented. Gnostic Christianity lost the god wars and was decimated the moment Christianity gained political power which they used to end freedom of religion.

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


Because you don't know what you are talking about. Gods aren't invented, they are redefined. We STILL invent new gods by the reasoning gave here, if Allah is a different god from Yaweh, then any modern Christian notion of god is much different from that as the language is different and so are the attributes. Otherwise Allah is literally the same god as Yaweh, it's just slightly different theology, and a different language. Christians in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah. Saying that Allah is the last invented god is sure ignorance by any measure. Countless gods have actually been invented since then, like the Wiccan pantheon.


Wiccan is hardly new but to compare Yahweh who has a vague heaven to an Allah who is only interested in the sexual gratification of his sheeple is inventing a new god.

That god, like all others, will die eventually.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll

Regards
DL


First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


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GnosticBishop
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09 Sep 2016, 6:26 am

Ganondox wrote:

First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


So a bunch of perpetual virgins for Muslim men in heaven is not sexual perversion. Ok.

I agree in a sense that Yahweh is more personal.

He kills us when he can just as easily cure us, as often shown in scriptures, so if you include that in your (personal) attribute, I agree but think Yahweh to be even more of a vile demiurge because of that attribute.

Regards
DL



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09 Sep 2016, 4:52 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:

First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


So a bunch of perpetual virgins for Muslim men in heaven is not sexual perversion. Ok.




This is NOT a part of the Quran AT ALL. The actual description of the heaven is that it's a garden with four rivers, paralleling the Garden of Eden. Obviously you're just regurgitating myths various Islamaphobes have spread rather than studying the religion yourself.


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10 Sep 2016, 9:00 am

Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:

First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


So a bunch of perpetual virgins for Muslim men in heaven is not sexual perversion. Ok.




This is NOT a part of the Quran AT ALL. The actual description of the heaven is that it's a garden with four rivers, paralleling the Garden of Eden. Obviously you're just regurgitating myths various Islamaphobes have spread rather than studying the religion yourself.


I doubt if I can change your view of that so go ahead and respect a religion that is following immoral tenets and is quite good at producing homophobic and misogynous people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZXQerkrJE

Regards
DL



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10 Sep 2016, 1:21 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
If you look up Jung and Freud...

Jung would tend to be associated with metaphysics, as opposed to objective materialism.

Freud reportedly channeled messages from a spirit, which looked like a kingfisher.

For people who would have made up their own religion, somewhat along the lines of a "noble lie," they certainly seem to have gone off the schizoid, deep end.

I mean, what is your excuse for a hallucination or anti-social act, if these people had ought to know that it's just a narrative.



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10 Sep 2016, 1:32 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Why Did We Stop Inventing Gods?

Maybe because many people have decided their "god" is money?

Your answer is dangerously close to truth.

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."
Luke 16:13


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10 Sep 2016, 8:16 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Ganondox wrote:

First off, Wicca IS new, it was invent in the 1950s. While it's based around a rival of older paganism, it's still very much a new religion. Then to your understanding of Islam is even more off base. I've studied Islam in college, your idea of Allah is utter nonsense and has absolutely nothing to do with how he is described in the Quran. Like, sexual gratification of his people, seriously? Is this some blatant misinterpretation of "submission"? The main theological difference with Allah and Yaweh is that Allah is strictly immaterial and thus can't have offspring, while Yaweh is more personal.


So a bunch of perpetual virgins for Muslim men in heaven is not sexual perversion. Ok.




This is NOT a part of the Quran AT ALL. The actual description of the heaven is that it's a garden with four rivers, paralleling the Garden of Eden. Obviously you're just regurgitating myths various Islamaphobes have spread rather than studying the religion yourself.


I doubt if I can change your view of that so go ahead and respect a religion that is following immoral tenets and is quite good at producing homophobic and misogynous people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZXQerkrJE

Regards
DL


The video is inaccurate as it uses a biased population of muslims, most muslims don't believe what the so-called jihadists believe. Again, I studied Islam in university, which gives much more context than some stupid video. It's a myth that the Quran actually says jihadists will be promised virgins in heaven, what it's actually saying is that there are 72 angels who happen to be virgins in heaven. Jihadist iman twisted the words of the Quran and made up the myth that martyrs would be promised 72 wives in heaven for political reasons, it's not actually part of the religion at all. The closest thing to that is a Sunni Hadith (so not part of the Quran) saying martyrs will be promised 72 something (the translation is ambiguous), but the context makes it clear it's referring to a food item (like how the context of the sura of the sword makes it's clear that only the infidels who broke a peace treaty may be killed, not infidels in general). Meanwhile, one of the actual promises in heaven is a fountain of wine which does not intoxicate and rivers of honey. So if anything, you could argue that Islam is based on gluttony rather than sexual perversion. :P


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10 Sep 2016, 9:50 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

Are immoral demiurges like Yahweh, Jesus and Allah, the best that mankind can come up with?

Why do you think we stopped inventing gods and settled for demonstrably immoral ones?

Regards
DL

P.S. Gods are the opium of the people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uEMOeDZsA


We have the natural sciences which have proved to be an overwhelming success.


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GnosticBishop
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11 Sep 2016, 10:51 am

friedmacguffins wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
If you look up Jung and Freud...

Jung would tend to be associated with metaphysics, as opposed to objective materialism.

Freud reportedly channeled messages from a spirit, which looked like a kingfisher.

For people who would have made up their own religion, somewhat along the lines of a "noble lie," they certainly seem to have gone off the schizoid, deep end.

I mean, what is your excuse for a hallucination or anti-social act, if these people had ought to know that it's just a narrative.


I was referring to Jung and Freud's Father Complex.

Thanks for the trivia though.

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DL



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11 Sep 2016, 10:53 am

marcb0t wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
Why Did We Stop Inventing Gods?

Maybe because many people have decided their "god" is money?

Your answer is dangerously close to truth.

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."
Luke 16:13


Man has always sought order and security of the person.

Money, to many, does that better than some imaginary god.

Regards
DL