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BlasphemousDoggy
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31 Aug 2016, 1:37 pm

As someone who actually was diagnosed with Autism before it was even a commonly known thing I'm pretty cynical about the way that everybody I talk to claims to have a kid with autism because it echoes a time long ago when everybody seemed to have a kid with ADHD (I myself was misdiagnosed with ADHD as a kid before I got a proper diagnoses by a doctor who actually knew what she was doing and wasn't a quack).

I feel like autism is basically the new thing that people want to diagnose all problem children with just like ADHD was back in the day and what makes me really mad is how most people don't even bother to find out what autism is really about. Like when people say that autistic kids are all some kind of super-geniuses like the characters on TV which is complete B.S. because autism has nothing to do with how smart a person is (take it from me I really suck at math and my grammar isn't great either). It's a thing that impairs your social skills and effects the way you react to certain things like taste and touch. I also get very annoyed talking to people like my female neighbor who think that just because they are nerdy and have a social phobia that it automatically means they can label themselves as being autistic without even getting a diagnoses and then they try to tell me that they don't believe I'm autistic just because I don't fit the stereotype that the media has created (I have the same problem with being a gay man and everyone tries to convince me I must not be gay just because I don't fit that stereotype either).

Oh and don't even get me started on the way that society wants to focus all of their attention on Autistic "KIDS" because they think they're cute while completely ignoring the fact that adults can have autism too and that kids with autism will keep having it even as they grow up. I mean seriously as a kid I never realized how much harder it would be to grow up and still have autism because at that point it's like all these doctors and people quit giving a damn about your special needs because they would rather focus all their attention on the cute little kids with autism as if they think they can actually fix them at that age. :roll:



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31 Aug 2016, 1:45 pm

I saw discussion on psych profiling of job applicants, with an 'enneagram' test. There was no correct answer, because anyone one of nine personality profiles had it's strengths and it's weaknesses.

AS and NT behaviors also have their strong and weak points, as do skin tones, physical builds, the "doshas" of Ayurvedic medicine, or the philosophical elements of humoral medicine. Each type is suited to a different purpose.

It's like asking a question about range of motion or hair texture, imhblo.



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31 Aug 2016, 1:53 pm

BlasphemousDoggy wrote:
As someone who actually was diagnosed with Autism before it was even a commonly known thing I'm pretty cynical about the way that everybody I talk to claims to have a kid with autism because it echoes a time long ago when everybody seemed to have a kid with ADHD (I myself was misdiagnosed with ADHD as a kid before I got a proper diagnoses by a doctor who actually knew what she was doing and wasn't a quack).

I feel like autism is basically the new thing that people want to diagnose all problem children with just like ADHD was back in the day and what makes me really mad is how most people don't even bother to find out what autism is really about. Like when people say that autistic kids are all some kind of super-geniuses like the characters on TV which is complete B.S. because autism has nothing to do with how smart a person is (take it from me I really suck at math and my grammar isn't great either). It's a thing that impairs your social skills and effects the way you react to certain things like taste and touch. I also get very annoyed talking to people like my female neighbor who think that just because they are nerdy and have a social phobia that it automatically means they can label themselves as being autistic without even getting a diagnoses and then they try to tell me that they don't believe I'm autistic just because I don't fit the stereotype that the media has created (I have the same problem with being a gay man and everyone tries to convince me I must not be gay just because I don't fit that stereotype either).

Oh and don't even get me started on the way that society wants to focus all of their attention on Autistic "KIDS" because they think they're cute while completely ignoring the fact that adults can have autism too and that kids with autism will keep having it even as they grow up. I mean seriously as a kid I never realized how much harder it would be to grow up and still have autism because at that point it's like all these doctors and people quit giving a damn about your special needs because they would rather focus all their attention on the cute little kids with autism as if they think they can actually fix them at that age. :roll:

Even legitimate diagnoses, when they are initially described in diagnostic criteria and literature, are bound to be seen everywhere. That is the result of social novelty. When Mood rings were first sold in America, everyone wanted and wore one. Similarly, every decade seems to have its new diagnosis that, while it is addressing real problems for real people, becomes an imperative for some to pursue such a diagnosis because it describes their conditions more accurately than the last diagnosis. That is the nature of novel diagnoses.

In my case, I was diagnosed with various depression conditions four or five times during as many years. At that time, autism was almost unknown in the United States, so, the next best diagnosis was depression. Years later, I began explaining to every successive diagnostician how I was autistic, not depressed. I blamed the original diagnostic discussions: "How many friends do you have?" "One." "How many classmates do you speak to at school?" "One, sometimes two." "What do you do for fun?" "Read my books." "Well, it is clear that you are depressed."

No, I was autistic the whole darn time.


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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)


BlasphemousDoggy
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31 Aug 2016, 2:39 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
In my case, I was diagnosed with various depression conditions four or five times during as many years. At that time, autism was almost unknown in the United States, so, the next best diagnosis was depression. Years later, I began explaining to every successive diagnostician how I was autistic, not depressed. I blamed the original diagnostic discussions: "How many friends do you have?" "One." "How many classmates do you speak to at school?" "One, sometimes two." "What do you do for fun?" "Read my books." "Well, it is clear that you are depressed."

No, I was autistic the whole darn time.


I can relate to that from when I used to be misdiagnosed with ADHD. One of the reasons doctors thought I had it was because of the way that I had a hard time concentrating in school but what they didn't realize was unlike people with ADHD who can't concentrate because they flip back and forth between so many different thoughts at once my inability to concentrate was due to the fact that I had obsessive-compulsive disorder (one of the many traits of being autistic) and I had a tendency to focus all my attention on one thought at a time and it was very difficult to break me out of my obsessive thinking. For example when the teacher was trying to teach the class about a subject I would constantly interrupt to talk about one of my favorite TV shows or video games or even another academic subject that had nothing to do with that the teacher was trying to teach.

Also when I was put on medicine at 14 for many years to "help" my autism it was like the doctors were playing musical chairs with my meds by increasing doses and taking some meds away while adding in others and it had me feeling so screwed up that I actually attempted to run away from home twice and even commit suicide twice. Instead of listening to me and accepting the fact that these medicines were making me feel worse and not better the doctors as well as my mother only talked about diagnosing me with other things like bipolar and schizophrenia towards the end and it was only after my last breaking point that my mother decided that maybe it really was the meds and she allowed me to tell the doctor that I was going to quit taking them. Ever since I quit taking these medicines even she has noticed that I'm back to my normal self and I am still very much autistic but at least I'm not feeling uncontrollably angry and depressed all the time.

And it's because of that I no longer trust doctors anymore. It's just like in that one episode of The Golden Girls where Beatrice Arthur's character Dorothy was having issues with doctors (kind of like me) where she was suffering a real illness called "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and the doctors kept dismissing everything she was telling them and tried to convince her that she was just crazy and stupid. I don't understand what it is about doctors but a lot of them seem to have no actual compassion towards their patients and they refuse to ever admit when they make an actual mistake that could possibly cost a patient their life. It's like when my mother had her appendix surgery and they failed to close her up all the way and she almost bled to death on the inside. She actually had to argue these people down to help her because they refused to admit they made a mistake.



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31 Aug 2016, 2:51 pm

BlasphemousDoggy wrote:
I can relate to that from when I used to be misdiagnosed with ADHD. One of the reasons doctors thought I had it was because of the way that I had a hard time concentrating in school but what they didn't realize was unlike people with ADHD who can't concentrate because they flip back and forth between so many different thoughts at once my inability to concentrate was due to the fact that I had obsessive-compulsive disorder (one of the many traits of being autistic) and I had a tendency to focus all my attention on one thought at a time and it was very difficult to break me out of my obsessive thinking. For example when the teacher was trying to teach the class about a subject I would constantly interrupt to talk about one of my favorite TV shows or video games or even another academic subject that had nothing to do with that the teacher was trying to teach.

Also when I was put on medicine at 14 for many years to "help" my autism it was like the doctors were playing musical chairs with my meds by increasing doses and taking some meds away while adding in others and it had me feeling so screwed up that I actually attempted to run away from home twice and even commit suicide twice. Instead of listening to me and accepting the fact that these medicines were making me feel worse and not better the doctors as well as my mother only talked about diagnosing me with other things like bipolar and schizophrenia towards the end and it was only after my last breaking point that my mother decided that maybe it really was the meds and she allowed me to tell the doctor that I was going to quit taking them. Ever since I quit taking these medicines even she has noticed that I'm back to my normal self and I am still very much autistic but at least I'm not feeling uncontrollably angry and depressed all the time.

And it's because of that I no longer trust doctors anymore. It's just like in that one episode of The Golden Girls where Beatrice Arthur's character Dorothy was having issues with doctors (kind of like me) where she was suffering a real illness called "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" and the doctors kept dismissing everything she was telling them and tried to convince her that she was just crazy and stupid. I don't understand what it is about doctors but a lot of them seem to have no actual compassion towards their patients and they refuse to ever admit when they make an actual mistake that could possibly cost a patient their life. It's like when my mother had her appendix surgery and they failed to close her up all the way and she almost bled to death on the inside. She actually had to argue these people down to help her because they refused to admit they made a mistake.

I agree completely. If you are an adult, write down this phrase and practice using it so that you remember it when it is needed:

"I am the determinant partner in my own health care. You are my physician, and may recommend various treatments, but I decide whether I accept or continue such treatments."

Some physicians get very upset with this phrase, but they end up respecting it.


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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)


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31 Aug 2016, 3:36 pm

Diet
Usually a better diet will result in you doing better.

Vaccines
There have numerous studies and none have shown an increase in Autism prevalence in people who have been vaccinated. This does not mean vaccines do not cause any autism at all. It is well established that vaccines harm some people. They are approved when the their benefits are thought to far outstrip their harm. I think all the emphasis on vaccines might be preventing us from finding another toxin that may cause autism.

Expanding Diagnostic criteria/Trendy diagnosis
I do think that the criteria changes are a big reason for the increase in the prevalence rate. I think the wannabe effect is overblown but these topics have been dealt with in thread after thread. The remainder of this post will deal will what I believe to other factors causing the increase in Autism prevalence.

Different Era, Different Values
Back in the 60's and '70's while it was acknowledged people had problems you were expected to figure out how to deal with them. Burdening others with your problems was looked down upon. Self analyzing was looked down upon as unmanly. If you needed to go to a "shrink" that meant you could not or barely function.

Schools were not required legally to educate you. Same standards and tests for everybody. If you did badly, you repeated the grade, if you flunked again or they could not handle you they kicked you out of school.

Normal parenting back then was parenting that will get you arrested for child abuse today. Be in the dining room for dinner and complete your homework was all that was required most days. Helicopter parenting, hovering over the child, planning a their whole day was not done. You had to figure out what to play. If it was a nice day and you were 6 years old you were allowed to walk a few blocks by yourself, when you were a tween you rode you bike for three or four miles and took public transportation by yourself or with friends. Even if your parents wanted to follow you around the technology did not exist for them to do so.

That environment was more conductive to helping you figure out who you are what worked and what did not. Some with milder autism and other conditions would be functional or significantly more functional then a similar person today. Others because of no understanding and no support who would function today failed then.

The work world was different. While you had recessions the economy was much better then today. Often you stayed in the same line of work and even with the same employer your whole life. Less change, less multitasking, better for autistics. Benefits and pensions were common. "Social Skills" were important but a lot less so for certain jobs. If you were an engineer or accountant it was expected you would be eccentric. You were not expected to like your boss and visa versa just be able to communicate about work related issues. This was your job not a social club.


Misdiagnosis and non diagnosis
"Severe" autistics were often misdiagnosed also. Leo Kanner bragged about not diagnosing 9 out the 10 patients who saw him. In the refrigerator mother era the last thing anybody would want was an autism diagnosis. If you were a mother did you want to be known as a person who hated your kid and treated him so coldly the kid reacted by losing all ability for emotion and empathy?. Did you want your kid to be thought of as at best partially human?

There was absolutely no concept of adult autism. There was a not so well known "residue autism" diagnoses.

As noted above unless your condition crippled you, you did not even see a clinicion never mind get a diagnosis.


Institutionalization and beyond
Being institutionalized was often not like what you saw in "Rain Man" . If you acted up or complained you got beaten or chained to the floor or given a massive dose of sedatives and maybe shocked (the gold standard treatment for depression then). In some institutions you were a Guinea pig for drug experiments. Another words if you were admitted you were not likely to leave never mind get better.

Lifetime Institutionalization was often too costly for a family. Sometimes the family locked the "black sheep" of the family in a room in the attic. Sometimes they were tossed out. This not only went for severe cases. Say an autistic was in his or her mid to late 20's bouncing from job to job because he or she melted down or just was too rude to the people writing his or her check. This scenario is not unusual today but at that time most people at that age were out of their parents house with a steady job and married or on their way to being married. The obvious diagnosis was character flaws and the cure was the tough love of being disowned and kicked out.


Conclusion
As seen above there were numerous reasons for people not being diagnosed back in the day. My strong view is that there is no autism epidemic and that there are the similar percentage of autistics today as there was when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. But it was so different in so many ways there is no way to know for sure.


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Aspertastic424
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31 Aug 2016, 4:03 pm

Maybe everyone here is right. Maybe there is no autism epidemic.

I do take issue though with people saying autism is "just a different way of being." Maybe so, but even something like aspergers is a significant handicap.

I have it and am high functioning, and I could barely do basic high school math never mind stay organized.

I have a really tough time believing people like Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton or Darwin had autism. Given how difficult life is for people with it today, and given how no one in that era (teachers,parents etc) really were that helpful or accepting of people who were different, and given how difficult it is for many on the spectrum to have a job or further education, I just find it hard to swallow, this whole diagnosing people who have been dead for centuries.

While we are at it, we may as well say all the t-rex's had aspergers syndrome!

By the way, I know many people today rightly point out how cruel teachers and other children can be to those on the spectrum. Yet in the pre 1990s era they were way worse.

When my parents were growing up (60s-70s) I know that it was pretty common for teachers to call kids "stupid" openly and make fun of them for not getting their work right. They certainly did not help them if they were "different."

I know bullying is a big problem now, but I have to believe it's way less than in my parents era. I think people thought nothing of boys fighting or beating up eachother thinking "Boys will be boys." They definitly had that attitude toward sexual harassment. And for sure there was no push to "accept differences or "be open and inclusive to others." It was just a way way rougher time for everybody.

With all those incredible odds those on the spectrum face now.... its tough to believe those famous geniuses were on the spectrum too! :|



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31 Aug 2016, 5:23 pm

Aspertastic424 wrote:
Maybe everyone here is right. Maybe there is no autism epidemic.

I do take issue though with people saying autism is "just a different way of being." Maybe so, but even something like aspergers is a significant handicap.

I have it and am high functioning, and I could barely do basic high school math never mind stay organized.

I have a really tough time believing people like Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton or Darwin had autism. Given how difficult life is for people with it today, and given how no one in that era (teachers,parents etc) really were that helpful or accepting of people who were different, and given how difficult it is for many on the spectrum to have a job or further education, I just find it hard to swallow, this whole diagnosing people who have been dead for centuries.

While we are at it, we may as well say all the t-rex's had aspergers syndrome!

By the way, I know many people today rightly point out how cruel teachers and other children can be to those on the spectrum. Yet in the pre 1990s era they were way worse.

When my parents were growing up (60s-70s) I know that it was pretty common for teachers to call kids "stupid" openly and make fun of them for not getting their work right. They certainly did not help them if they were "different."

I know bullying is a big problem now, but I have to believe it's way less than in my parents era. I think people thought nothing of boys fighting or beating up eachother thinking "Boys will be boys." They definitly had that attitude toward sexual harassment. And for sure there was no push to "accept differences or "be open and inclusive to others." It was just a way way rougher time for everybody.

With all those incredible odds those on the spectrum face now.... its tough to believe those famous geniuses were on the spectrum too! :|


I am not into retrodiagnosing but am not going to say these people were not autistic. Like today people and places were different. Teachers were varied in competency, some were mean, some nice.

You are right about bullying, it was boys bieng boys, thought to be a normal part of growing up. But as I explained in my post there were advanteges to growing up then. Bullying was done in the playground or on the way to and from school but if your parents were not abusive that was it. Today cyberbullying can be 24 hours a day. There are so many ways to gaslight a person today.

The harm of no understanding has been well explained. Having no label meant not knowing about what you supposidly can not do. It meant not reading about the well documented grieving process an autism diagnosis brings to parents, did read about millions upon millions of dollars bieng spent in a desperate attempt to cure you, you did not read about what trendy attention seekers we are.

Dispite all the diversity talk society is in may ways more conformist today. Your self esteem and how people view you was not dependent upon how many friends you have on Facebook. Applying for a job meant one interview with one or two people who sized you up. Today it is multiple rounds of interviews and multiple personslity tests designed to weed out people who are not team players. I remember the job hunting in the 80's by putting on a suit, bringing a folder with resumes and just walking right into offices. I got a few interviews that way because employers looked upon that as ambition not a potential spree shooter. Of course today without mutiple id's I do not get into the building at all. Of course most my resumes were tossed in the trash but it kept me engaged and was a way to use whatever basic business social skills I had.


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02 Sep 2016, 6:37 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Diet
Usually a better diet will result in you doing better.

Vaccines
There have numerous studies and none have shown an increase in Autism prevalence in people who have been vaccinated. This does not mean vaccines do not cause any autism at all. It is well established that vaccines harm some people. They are approved when the their benefits are thought to far outstrip their harm. I think all the emphasis on vaccines might be preventing us from finding another toxin that may cause autism.

Expanding Diagnostic criteria/Trendy diagnosis
I do think that the criteria changes are a big reason for the increase in the prevalence rate. I think the wannabe effect is overblown but these topics have been dealt with in thread after thread. The remainder of this post will deal will what I believe to other factors causing the increase in Autism prevalence.

Different Era, Different Values
Back in the 60's and '70's while it was acknowledged people had problems you were expected to figure out how to deal with them. Burdening others with your problems was looked down upon. Self analyzing was looked down upon as unmanly. If you needed to go to a "shrink" that meant you could not or barely function.

Schools were not required legally to educate you. Same standards and tests for everybody. If you did badly, you repeated the grade, if you flunked again or they could not handle you they kicked you out of school.

Normal parenting back then was parenting that will get you arrested for child abuse today. Be in the dining room for dinner and complete your homework was all that was required most days. Helicopter parenting, hovering over the child, planning a their whole day was not done. You had to figure out what to play. If it was a nice day and you were 6 years old you were allowed to walk a few blocks by yourself, when you were a tween you rode you bike for three or four miles and took public transportation by yourself or with friends. Even if your parents wanted to follow you around the technology did not exist for them to do so.

That environment was more conductive to helping you figure out who you are what worked and what did not. Some with milder autism and other conditions would be functional or significantly more functional then a similar person today. Others because of no understanding and no support who would function today failed then.

The work world was different. While you had recessions the economy was much better then today. Often you stayed in the same line of work and even with the same employer your whole life. Less change, less multitasking, better for autistics. Benefits and pensions were common. "Social Skills" were important but a lot less so for certain jobs. If you were an engineer or accountant it was expected you would be eccentric. You were not expected to like your boss and visa versa just be able to communicate about work related issues. This was your job not a social club.


Misdiagnosis and non diagnosis
"Severe" autistics were often misdiagnosed also. Leo Kanner bragged about not diagnosing 9 out the 10 patients who saw him. In the refrigerator mother era the last thing anybody would want was an autism diagnosis. If you were a mother did you want to be known as a person who hated your kid and treated him so coldly the kid reacted by losing all ability for emotion and empathy?. Did you want your kid to be thought of as at best partially human?

There was absolutely no concept of adult autism. There was a not so well known "residue autism" diagnoses.

As noted above unless your condition crippled you, you did not even see a clinicion never mind get a diagnosis.


Institutionalization and beyond
Being institutionalized was often not like what you saw in "Rain Man" . If you acted up or complained you got beaten or chained to the floor or given a massive dose of sedatives and maybe shocked (the gold standard treatment for depression then). In some institutions you were a Guinea pig for drug experiments. Another words if you were admitted you were not likely to leave never mind get better.

Lifetime Institutionalization was often too costly for a family. Sometimes the family locked the "black sheep" of the family in a room in the attic. Sometimes they were tossed out. This not only went for severe cases. Say an autistic was in his or her mid to late 20's bouncing from job to job because he or she melted down or just was too rude to the people writing his or her check. This scenario is not unusual today but at that time most people at that age were out of their parents house with a steady job and married or on their way to being married. The obvious diagnosis was character flaws and the cure was the tough love of being disowned and kicked out.


Conclusion
As seen above there were numerous reasons for people not being diagnosed back in the day. My strong view is that there is no autism epidemic and that there are the similar percentage of autistics today as there was when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. But it was so different in so many ways there is no way to know for sure.

QFT

I ESPECIALLY agree with the part about vaccines----I think that it IS quite possible that vaccines can be A cause of autism; NOT that they are THEE cause (as in, the one and only cause). I specifically think that it's quite possible that metals (for instance, mercury and aluminum, used as preservatives, in various products) have something to do with people suffering from neurological problems, in different ways----they (metals) to ME, are used is SOOOOO many things, that it seems possible that they (metals) could be a culprit (AGAIN, A cause--not the one-and-only). I have also thought that all these acronym things, could be a problem----like, MSG, GMO, etc.

I also, especially, agree with ASPartOfMe's post that discusses how life was in the 60s and 70s, for instance----that, if you had something "wrong" with you, you just better "get over it". I have often thought that people who are 50/60 years old, are, possibly better-off, in some ways, than people being diagnosed today, with an ASD, because they, sort-of, seem to give an excuse to their "weirdness", and therefore, give an excuse to NOT do anything, much, about it----in MY and ASPartOfMe's day, that just wouldn't be acceptable.

*********************

Sidebar: I looked-at the link in the OP, and read something I had never read before:


Organic Lifestyle Magazine wrote:
Vaccines severely distort the balance of minerals in the body, which causes vitamin and other nutrient imbalances as well. This leads to a weakened endocrine system, which causes hormonal imbalances...

I thought "Wow, wouldn't it be wild if this (hormonal imbalance) was the reason there are transgenders, in the world"----like, if they have more of the opposite gender hormone----it might even explain why people are gay; like, maybe, if a female has an over-abundance of estrogen, it would make her attracted to women (this would be a "same-gender hormone"). For those that feel that they, and others, are BORN gay, there could be any NUMBER of reasons that a MOTHER'S minerals, in her body, are severely distorted----again, I'm looking at METALS. I know it sounds wild, but I certainly think there might be something there. I mean, look-it----just today the FDA announced, THIS:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-orders-antibacterials-removed-consumer-soaps-n642036

...that there's some kind of ingredient in anti-bacterial soap, that messes-up our hormones. These two articles (including the one in the OP) certainly give ME "food-for-thought".




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02 Sep 2016, 6:57 pm

Aspertastic424 wrote:
Why doesn't God want certain people to have a happy and full life and be able to relate to others?

I don't think God has anything to DO with people not having "a happy and full life"----as in, I don't think He does anything to CAUSE an UNhappy life; but, I think He's there to see us THROUGH it!








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02 Sep 2016, 7:14 pm

Aspertastic424 wrote:
The basic premise of the article is autism might be increasing because of the lack of exposure to bacteria/nature. I have heard autism barely exists in the amish community (where they are around horses/crops all day long.)


The Amish community is highly inbred, not implying incest but many generations of marriage within a small kinship group. As a result, they have increased rates of some genetic disorders. They are different than the larger population not only in exposure to livestock and farming. So I would hesitate to draw any conclusions or generalize from the Amish to a larger effect.


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