Question for the late talkers

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AspieUtah
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25 Sep 2016, 9:37 am

EzraS wrote:

There are three things that made me a late talker and still mostly nonverbal.

- Autism.
- Dyspraxia (apraxia of speech).
- Selective mutism.

Hm. Another EzraS epiphany! As you probably remember, I had undiagnosed selective mutism until about age 16 years. But, until I read your post, I never thought of myself as nonverbal. Sure, I was hyperlexic with my immediate family and one friend, but selectively mute with EVERYbody else. I guess I had thought that being nonverbal was limited to ID, ASD, Dyspraxia and other disorders. But, of course, being nonverbal because of selective mutism would be a legitimate cause.

EzraS should write his own series of books. He is as fascinating as John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin and Tony Attwood.

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underwater
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25 Sep 2016, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

I feel it's very bad not to treat him like any normal kid. Don't treat like he's two. He's six, and probably not cognitively delayed.

Six-year-olds should know not to just take other kids' toys away from them.

He should get interventions, but he should not have the idea that he's "disabled" emphasized.

He might only have a speech disorder, rather than a language disorder.

I think that is what his mother believes as well. The good thing about his school is that is a school that has a center for speech pedagogics attached to a regular primary school. So he and another kid with similar issues are taught some classes on their own and some with the rest of the kids.

I think you articulated what has been buzzing around my brain that I couldn't put my finger on; that this kid is really not that handicapped, and that his one single problem might sort itself out. I think they are doing him a disservice in building him an identity as disabled. They have really low expectations of him, yet I see a kid who is socially capable, good at sports and who has the practical intelligence of a natural born mechanic.

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smudge
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25 Sep 2016, 10:01 am

Semantic Pragmatic Disorder?

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JakeASD
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25 Sep 2016, 10:08 am

underwater wrote:

JakeASD wrote:

Whilst I am a grown man, this sounds remarkably like me.

I have been diagnosed with autism, but I strongly suspect I have a form of dyspraxia or dyslexia, too.

Do you know if he confuses his relative clauses? Such as "on which" and "at which".

I am always analysing language, but it's very difficult for me to structure sentences in a coherent fahsion - both in writing and verbally.

He's too small to use expressions like "on which" and "at which". In any case this is expressed differently in our language.

Do you also have a combination of good motor skills and trouble with speech?

I have always been good at catching things, but my walking pace is slow and I can appear somewhat ungainly. I guess my motor skills are no worse than average.

I certainly have difficulties with speech. Almost every sentence I utter includes the term "ascertain" even when it's completely unnecessary. Furthermore, I believe I misuse the term "were".

Communication is my biggest stumbling block in my efforts to find work. In many respects my life would be easier if I was mute.

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JakeASD
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25 Sep 2016, 10:11 am

Just to emphasise my point, I cannot discern whether it should be "if I were mute" or "if I was mute".

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kraftiekortie
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25 Sep 2016, 10:23 am

That's not language problem.

You might have trouble with the finer points of British vs US grammar. Or in speaking "old-fashioned" vs "contemporary."

"Was" is more "correct" these days. "Were" sounds old-fashioned.

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25 Sep 2016, 10:27 am

smudge wrote:

Semantic Pragmatic Disorder?

I doubt it. There has never been an issue of "parroting" words and phrases. What little he's been saying has been unclear and difficult to understand, but once I understand what he is asking, it's always appropriate to the situation at hand.

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JakeASD
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25 Sep 2016, 11:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

I could be mistaken but I believe it's always "were" - for both Brits and Americans - when one is hypothesising.

I still believe that I have a language disorder because it seems almost impossible for me to formulate a coherent sentence without questioning if it's grammatically correct or not.

Reading comprehension is a significant issue too as I am a poor visualiser, thus it's difficult for me understand language.

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kraftiekortie
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25 Sep 2016, 11:20 am

I guess "were" is more formally correct--but many people use "was" without seeming ungrammatical.

Conceptions of "proper" grammar are always changing.

btbnnyr
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25 Sep 2016, 12:11 pm

Perhaps brain damage?
Seems like purely expressive language disorder.

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League_Girl
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25 Sep 2016, 12:27 pm

underwater wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

That's probably the best approach.

The kid definitely needs somebody who doesn't "know" that he has a disorder. To relate to him as a person. He's probably had enough of people treating him like somebody who is "broken."

I didn't "know" I had one, either, as a kid. I think that was of benefit to me.

I was quite a late talker; didn't speak until age 5.5. I didn't have apraxia, though. By six, I spoke like any six-year-old.

Yeah, that's why I feel like the mean one a lot of the time, because I think he could do with a bit less attention. There's just so many people orbiting this kid with services, therapies, tests and whatnot. I'm not certain they are of help to him if in fact they are not able to teach him to talk.

I question the idea that we all need to hit certain milestones at certain times in our lives; quite a lot of people have caught up at a later date without any damage having been done. I sometimes feel it would be better to communicate that we are all different, and all valuable.

This kid's social skills are totally all right, except that I feel his mother is letting him get away with stuff that other kids wouldn't be allowed, such as taking other kids' toys from them, based on the notion that this is "his way of communicating that he wants to play with them". Naturally, the other kids don't see it that way.

Goodness, my mother never let me get away with naughty behavior and I was still expected to use words and still expected to share. I was also given speech therapy and shuffled in a self contained class. My parents say the classroom part was a mistake and I should have never been there and my mom thinks I would have been fine in mainstream kindergarten because my language was emerging. I never saw any other therapists. No developmental ones or nothing. I wonder if I would have just had an aide and that would have been it and then I would have been on my own once my language was developed enough.

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EzraS
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25 Sep 2016, 7:08 pm

underwater wrote:

EzraS wrote:

There are three things that made me a late talker and still mostly nonverbal.

- Autism.
- Dyspraxia (apraxia of speech).
- Selective mutism.

...which is why it's so tricky to deal with, no? That's a lot going on simultaneously. Are you able yourself to analyze in hindsight what in particular was giving you trouble in a particular situation?

I would say the autism was the biggest part until I was about eight, when I started becoming more responsive to others and talking some. Then as they worked to get me to talk more by putting me in speech therapy, they became aware of the apraxia of speech and eventually selective mutism. I think the selective mutism is more tied to my autism which also causes me to be withdrawn and aloof.

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18 Oct 2016, 4:11 am

Thank you guys for helping me with this. I'll be seeing this family soon, so I'll definitely ask how the kid is doing, and try to ask his mother what he is good at.......

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18 Oct 2016, 8:30 pm

Typically the "window of acquisition" for language closes after the age of five, so children who don't learn to speak their native language fluidly before that age have an exponentially harder time learning it as they get older. This is why adults have such difficulty studying foreign languages, because our brains are no longer optimally wired to learn new languages. Of course there are exceptions to this, as Kraftie and Ezra have demonstrated, but medically there's a good chance this child will always have speech difficulties in one capacity or another.

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underwater
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08 Jun 2017, 11:34 am

Thank you guys for your help on this. I just wanted to give you all an update, since you were so nice as to give me a lot of good pointers. Maybe someone can learn something from this.

The boy in question has gotten a lot better at talking, but he's unhappy at school, so they've decided to mainstream him. Basically, he was put in a special class where all the other kids were autistics with language troubles, and it sort of went downhill a lot after I started this thread. According to his mother, the trouble is that he wants to play, and the autistic kids don't. I'm not certain that that analysis is entirely correct, but considering that this boy can be a bit rough, and that he relies on body language to communicate, you can perphaps imagine how it all panned out.... It just goes to show how different people can be.

As for the language bit, he speaks a bit like deaf people do, but his choice of words is very situation appropriate and of his generation. I hope he'll start enjoying school more in the new place.

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kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2017, 12:04 pm

How is he handling the mainstream academic material; and how is he doing socially?

Sometimes, "rough play" could be beneficial----but it has to be done at the "right time." If it's done inappropriately, he would stand out.

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