Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

AlexaSaturn
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 9 Sep 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 17
Location: South of the mason Dixon

26 Sep 2016, 6:22 am

Can we talk about the elephant in the room for a bit? These mass shootings are pretty common nowadays but does anyone talk about how a good chunk of these guys seem to be on the spectrum? Everyone describes them as the weird loner, with weird interest who seemed creepy, was bullied, inappropriate behavior, talking about killing "normies ".

Also in particular alot of them seemed scorned by love interests and don't respect the boundaries of women and when they are rejected time and time again specifically go out to kill women. Elliot Rodgers and this last guy (cetin?) Are the ones that come immediately to mind.

What do you think could be done about neurological disorders and the urge for revenge against a society that has rejected them?


_________________
There are many who would take my time. I shun them.
There are some who share my time. I am entertained by them.
There are precious few who contribute to my time. I cherish them.-Anton LaVey

pro-cure,atheist,anarcho-syndicalist,anti-conservative pc,pro-wrestling and jiu jitsu is life


B19
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,462
Location: New Zealand

26 Sep 2016, 6:41 am

There is not an elephant, this has been discussed many times on WP.

What I would like to know is why there is a relatively high incidence of serial killings in the USA, compared to other Western countries.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 64,846
Location: Queens, NYC

26 Sep 2016, 7:09 am

There always seems to be something else "going on" within a mass murderer who was allegedly on the Spectrum.



johnnyh
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Posts: 328

26 Sep 2016, 7:12 am

People with other disorders also commit atrocities, but the focus on autism is unique. I won't say why though.


_________________
I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


Adamantium
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1019
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,998
Location: Erehwon

26 Sep 2016, 11:24 am

There is no elephant in the room.

The majority of mass killers are neurotypical (specifically, not autistic and not neurodivergent in any other way) and legally sane when they kill.

Jon Elder Robison wrote:
There are no studies showing a propensity for aggressive violence from autistic people.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/my ... once-again

Worth a read, if you are interested in this subject: Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


lordfakename
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2015
Posts: 183

26 Sep 2016, 11:52 am

There's a lot of *speculation* regarding mass killers. Possibly because autism is widely associated with being "weird" or "anti-social" now due to increased awareness. But I have seen no proof that there is any solid connection at all.

Regarding Elliott Rodgers, he did not have Aspergers IIRC. His family uspected he did, but he had been in the mental health system for a decade and never received a diagnosis. So him being autistic is rather unlikely.

And in any case, neurotypical people kill people all the time. Perhaps there's a connection between killers and being neurotypical? :P



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,040
Location: Maidstone, UK

26 Sep 2016, 12:55 pm

This really freaks me out. I think I'm going to go and get undiagnosed, because I can't live with having a condition that keeps getting associated with mass killings. I think every threads that negatively associates Aspies with murderers should be deleted from the internet, because it's turning AS into a dangerous thing.

Either that or I will leave this site. I will deactivate my account.


_________________
Female
Aged 29
On antidepressants
Diagnosed with AS, ADHD and anxiety disorder


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 23,753
Location: Pacific Northwest

26 Sep 2016, 12:59 pm

Joe90 wrote:
This really freaks me out. I think I'm going to go and get undiagnosed, because I can't live with having a condition that keeps getting associated with mass killings. I think every threads that negatively associates Aspies with murderers should be deleted from the internet, because it's turning AS into a dangerous thing.

Either that or I will leave this site. I will deactivate my account.



Also don't get me started on aspies and psychopathy and narcissism. I have seen the comparison between all three. I don't want to be associated with this terrible disorder if we really are a bunch of narcissists. I see too many bad stories about aspie spouses and they all sound nothing like abusers and narcissists. Then it doesn't help when aspies take offense to it and blame the victim and say they're the narcissists. In fact I am thinking about not identifying myself with it anymore nor as being on the spectrum and problem solved. But then I am afraid I will turn into someone who is hateful about autism and see them as narcissists and be just like those women on AssPartners.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 64,846
Location: Queens, NYC

26 Sep 2016, 1:34 pm

There are narcissists in all diagnoses.

There are schizophrenic narcissists,
There are autistic narcissists,
There are neurotypical narcissists.

Last I heard, Narcissism is not a diagnostic criterium for autism.

Any person, with an axe to grind, and with lots of time to isolate themselves from the world, has the time and inclination to plan heinous things like mass murder.

That's why I advocate that people take vacations from the computer, and go out in the real world---even to just observe people.

What's on the computer, in terms of how people "behave," does NOT reflect real life. People are not always insulting each other in real life, like they frequently do within certain forums (NOT so much WrongPlanet).

People who isolate themselves from the world tend to develop a skewed, macrocosmic, abstract conception of the world, rather than a more real, microcosmic, concrete conception.

When people become ideologies, things tend to get more dangerous.



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 23,753
Location: Pacific Northwest

26 Sep 2016, 2:08 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are narcissists in all diagnoses.

There are schizophrenic narcissists,
There are autistic narcissists,
There are neurotypical narcissists.



Very true. Maybe all those men and women are just with a narcissist who happens to have autism. I would rather not identify them as autistic or aspie because it's politically incorrect to be in a abusive relationship with an ASD person. But if you say you are with a narcissist or a psychopath, you are a victim and not seen as the bad guy and as the narcissist and not dealing with any gaslighting from other aspies online when you tell your story. Problem solved.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,036
Location: Long Island, New York

26 Sep 2016, 3:11 pm

This is a problem caused by widespread misunderstanding, specifically the lack of understanding that Autism is a spectrum condition. Most people understand Autistics have social communications issues and think of Autistics as shy, wierd, loners which are charactoristics a lot of mass shooters share. As mentioned above most mass shooters are not autistics because they do not have most of the defining criteria. Autistics are much more likely to be victims of violence not perpetrators.

The danger of an anti autistic backlash comes from the perception of autistic as mass killers not the reality of it. There have been and will be autistic mass killers and autism will be one of the many factors that led to the mass killing. That will just solidify bad perceptions. But is is important to note while there have been incidents there is nothing resembling an anti autistic backlash based on this perception going on right now. Our notably fractured commununity has rallied around trying to erase this bad perception and have had considerable success with the mass media.


_________________
Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person. - Sara Luterman


B19
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,462
Location: New Zealand

26 Sep 2016, 4:30 pm

Serial killers who evade arrest after killing multiple victims show a degree of executive function apparently which would be extremely unusual for AS people. Maybe the real elephant is why being NT is such a factor in serial killers.. however all reasonable people know that basic neurology is not a significant factor in these crimes. Psychopathy is, which is a personality disorder (and for those few who may not yet know it, AS is NOT a personality disorder).



katy_rome
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 230
Location: UK

26 Sep 2016, 5:16 pm

B19 wrote:
There is not an elephant, this has been discussed many times on WP.

What I would like to know is why there is a relatively high incidence of serial killings in the USA, compared to other Western countries.


Well, for a start it's probably quite a lot easier to get hold of the right kinds of weapons... :|

But also it seems to me that in the US you get such an extreme situation; huge inequality, lack of welfare and services, incredible pressure to perform and compete, almost no leave (or time to be with your kids, or notice how they are), no slack basically! People are branded winners or losers, often very early. In a meritocracy, clearly the general view is that what you get is what you deserve, resulting in lack of momentum to change things. So the resulting frustration, combined with relatively convenient access to automatic weapons, I think is largely responsible.


_________________
The meek shall inherit the Earth. Soon would be good.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 64,846
Location: Queens, NYC

26 Sep 2016, 5:53 pm

I don't believe socioeconomic stress underlies the mass shootings.

People from many different minority groups get "stressed" all the time, for various reasons. The vast majority don't go out and commit mass murders

I believe the cause, more likely, is what B19 stated: some sort of psychopathy. Some sort of extreme pathology which goes WAY beyond autism, way beyond, perhaps, even schizophrenia.

I don't find socioeconomic stress to be a good excuse for the cruelty of many of these murders. This is especially true for the Adam Lanza murders in Connecticut. He killed FIRST GRADERS!

There's more "excuse" (NOT justification) in the rioting which is going on after the police shootings--than in these mass shootings.



Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,040
Location: Maidstone, UK

26 Sep 2016, 5:55 pm

So if I become lonely later on in life I might develop an urge to kill people?

I don't like having AS. It's like I can't trust myself. Well, threads like these are making me feel like I can't trust myself. :cry:


_________________
Female
Aged 29
On antidepressants
Diagnosed with AS, ADHD and anxiety disorder