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Gilb
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09 May 2007, 5:10 pm

i don't find it offensive
we are much more offensive when we take a bash at other countries but we do it less often just look at Jeremy Clarkson



jimservo
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09 May 2007, 7:37 pm

Tequila wrote:
If you flew the Stars and Stripes in Britain on the 4 July you would look an idiot but not everyone here understands its significance. In fact, some English villages actually do fly the stars and stripes and celebrate Independence Day, like one not far from me in Lancashire.


Look, that's fine, and again I do not have a problem with flying the Union Jack. Many people in the states fly the colors as the country they are from, unless they feel fled that particular country. I myself don't tend to think in that manner and would rather honor the countries (like the UK) who I identify with.

Tequila wrote:
Flying the Union Jack on national days of most former British colonies would be seen as offensive (implying quasi-colonial status) and in some places could be quite dangerous


Oh, yes, I know. I personally feel the British Empire, while flawed certainly [ADDENDUM=the word flawed here should not be meant to imply endorsement of many truly inhuman acts but rather historical context in comparison to the other colonial empires-Jim*], provided more benefits then it did negatives, and identifying with it is nothing to be ashamed with. If the United States were a member of the Commonwealth, then I would advocate flying the Union Jack alongside side, the national flag every day of the week.

*Indeed I could make the same comments about the some portions of the history of the United States so to be clear I am not trying to pick on the UK with these comments.

Tequilla wrote:
That said, it would be considered suicide to fly it in parts of the UK (parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland for example) because of their sectarian/national divide.


Admittedly, this is true.

Tequilla wrote:
I find that insulting. Scotland is in Britain. England and Britain are two separate things


You are correct and I apologize for my error. I have a one word while thinking another but perhaps in this case I just wasn't thinking. I assure you I know that England, and Britain that do not mean the same thing. I will admit I do make it of habit of referring to the UK as alternatively the United Kingdom and Great Britain. Obviously, technically this isn't absolutely correct, and I apologize for any confusion.

I wasn't aware of the exact terms for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and I appreciate you making me aware.

I did not about the crown dependencies and Overseas territories, but I think I forgot about the use of the term British Islands for the UK.

Thanks for the info :)

EDIT: Fixed grammar mistakes.



Last edited by jimservo on 09 May 2007, 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

BazzaMcKenzie
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09 May 2007, 7:54 pm

Australians love to hate the English. :wink:


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09 May 2007, 8:01 pm

BazzaMcKenzie wrote:
Australians love to hate the English. :wink:


Yeah, those whingeing Pommy bas*****s! Have you ever seen a life-saver pull some perilled pom out of the Pacific? (I just made alliteration, with a bit of thought? I know perilled should be imperilled, but what the hell.)


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Tequila
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10 May 2007, 5:10 am

jimservo wrote:
Look, that's fine, and again I do not have a problem with flying the Union Jack. Many people in the states fly the colors as the country they are from, unless they feel fled that particular country. I myself don't tend to think in that manner and would rather honor the countries (like the UK) who I identify with.


I understand that now. Over here you would be seen as an oddball at best.

The only American flags you will find flying on United Kingdom soil except in special cases like the village near Lancaster I mentioned earlier are on airbases, outside consulates and hotels, some businesses and that sort of thing. I shouldn't need to tell you that the US is now tremendously unpopular in many parts of this country. We do not usually fly other nations' flags here - heck, we barely fly our own! In many parts of England you're far more likely to find an England flag than a Union Jack in part because of the English nationalist (as opposed to Unionist) sentiment here. Flags are often associated with extremists like the British National Party and others.

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Oh, yes, I know. I personally feel the British Empire, while flawed certainly [ADDENDUM=the word flawed here should not be meant to imply endorsement of many truly inhuman acts but rather historical context in comparison to the other colonial empires-Jim*], provided more benefits then it did negatives, and identifying with it is nothing to be ashamed with. If the United States were a member of the Commonwealth, then I would advocate flying the Union Jack alongside side, the national flag every day of the week.


Fly the Commonwealth flag instead! ;)

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You are correct and I apologize for my error. I have a one word while thinking another but perhaps in this case I just wasn't thinking. I assure you I know that England, and Britain that do not mean the same thing. I will admit I do make it of habit of referring to the UK as alternatively the United Kingdom and Great Britain. Obviously, technically this isn't absolutely correct, and I apologize for any confusion.


Referring to the UK as 'Britain' is fine - most of us here in Britain do the same thing. Referring to the place as 'Great Britain' would be a bit confusing unless you're referring to the island and not the nation. The worst thing you could do is to get national identities wrong - people will get quite angry with you. There might be something similar in the United States with regional identities when people confuse you with others. It's often not deliberate but people can get upset. And no I don't live in Heartbeat land, though it's nice up that way. :)

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I did not about the crown dependencies and Overseas territories, but I think I forgot about the use of the term British Islands for the UK.


The term 'British Islands' is never used in parlance. These are more legal terms, really - same with 'Crown Dependencies'. It's a way of distinguishing between the different relationship the UK has with them. I've been to the Isle of Man and it's quite a tame sort of place. Quiet, but not much going for it apart from the TT. :)

The overseas territories are small islands that we still own from the old days. Gibraltar is great for a day out but isn't big enough to last you more than a few hours or so. The feeling of loyalty they feel to Britain is immense and almost surreal. Most of these remnants are military bases. You should look up the case of Diego Garcia if you like a bit of skullduggery.

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Thanks for the info :)


No problem. :)



GoatOnFire
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10 May 2007, 6:44 pm

I always thought our comedy was harder on the French than the Brits.


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11 May 2007, 12:36 pm

i wasnt sure at all what actually was considered britain
since i knew that some parts of ireland are owned by britiain while others are not
and i never even thought of scotland

and its interesting about the flags if you didnt fly a flag in my old neighborhood on independance day your like a communist or something
its not like that around here though

gainesville's alot more liberal than the other towns i've lived in

and i didnt think anyone would be offended by these shows i wouldnt if america was getting made fun of in fact the daily show almost exclusively makes fun of america and thats one of my favorite shows


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HankPym
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17 May 2007, 7:44 pm

Tequila wrote:
jimservo wrote:
Home asso Ihad never heard or that difference youcite betweenthe phrases Great Britain and United Kingdom or that Wales (which my mothers side id from, andwhichi get slightlyself-indulgently sentimental about, attimes trying to learnthelanguage) had a "lesser" status - I would suppose - tham Scotland :oops: :( :o :cry:


Although admittedly, flying the flag of UK to the exclusive of the Stars and Stripes on July 4th could be interpreted as intending to be insulting. I wouldn't want to go to Canada and fly the Stars and Stripes on Canada Day, on Britain on the Queens Birthday, or in Australia on Australia Day.


If you flew the Stars and Stripes in Britain on the 4 July you would look an idiot but not everyone here understands its significance. In fact, some English villages actually do fly the stars and stripes and celebrate Independence Day, like one not far from me in Lancashire.

Flying the Union Jack on national days of most former British colonies would be seen as offensive (implying quasi-colonial status) and in some places could be quite dangerous. That said, it would be considered suicide to fly it in parts of the UK (parts of Scotland and Northern Ireland for example) because of their sectarian/national divide.

ChissandraChrissamba wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is when American people try to imitate British accents (badly) and say things like "pip-pip"


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Admittedly, perhaps many Americans (and not just Americans) are not aware of the amount of specific variations of accents that are present in Britain, Scotland, and Ireland.


I find that insulting. Scotland is in Britain. England and Britain are two seperate things. If you want to refer to the countries of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland the easiest way to say it is "UK and Ireland" or, perhaps, "Britain and Ireland". Britain, Scotland and Ireland will make you look ill-informed.

It's confusing, but:

England: constituent country
Scotland: constituent country
Wales: principality
Northern Ireland: province/region

England + Scotland + Wales: Great Britain
England + Scotland + Wales + Northern Ireland: United Kingdom (often incorrectly but popularly referred to as Britain)
Great Britain + all of Ireland: British Isles (not used in the Republic of Ireland)
Isle of Man + Guernsey + Jersey: Crown dependencies
UK + Crown dependencies: British Islands (but this is not often used)
Gibraltar, Bermuda, Falklands etc: Overseas territories

So, if you're referring to the state (like the United States) you refer to the UK.

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Well, that beats me. I don't know any British people at all, at least not personally.


Well, there's plenty here. And I'm one of them! :)



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17 May 2007, 7:45 pm

Onereason theres so many UK villkians in American flicks is...



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17 May 2007, 7:58 pm

there'sno U. K. Anti-Defamation League or British-American Citizens group to pressure movie producers! It's safe!
Too, i mean, Britishness has,more or less,always been thehighest,"socialy",ranking of any country of origin in the U. S.,really(Well since the memories of the War Of 1812 faded away...Maybe Bob Barker still remembers it!! ! Dick Clark??? :lol: :twisted:



Tequila
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19 May 2007, 8:27 am

In the case of Wales it's not a lesser status although that used to be the case with Welsh culture and Wales being considered part of England.



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20 May 2007, 7:47 am

To be honest, I don't care.

It's amusing most of the time. :)



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20 May 2007, 7:48 am

Gilb wrote:
i don't find it offensive
we are much more offensive when we take a bash at other countries but we do it less often just look at Jeremy Clarkson


:lol: :lol: ROFL.