I don't feel safe on this site

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This is presumably supposed to be a place where people who share a condition can come and not feel like they face the same criticisms, harsh judgements or rough treatment they may have received from "the world out there" which doesn't understand them precisely because of that condition.

And yet over and over again, in various ways and regarding various oft-repeated bones of contention, WP proves to be a place where I don't feel any escape from the above.

I get that "this is the internet" and a bunch of complete strangers are never all going to get along perfectly, all like each other, or all agree with each other.

But on a place like THIS, one hopes for more humanity toward each other than might be found in the general online world and even in the real world, a harsh place anyway.

Besides the regular bouts of heated discussion where diagnosed people post outright derision for not just the self diagnosed but even for the diagnosed who to THEM just "don't seem aspie enough", I also regularly notice people picking up on something someone has posted in one thread, and speaking about it in another thread, criticizing that stance, opinion, mindset, or the way that person handles or doesn't handle things -- yet sidestepping accusations of directly bashing that person because they name no names and do it in a completely different thread too. You can't even take it up with the person because they will passive aggressively say you're imagining it or assuming things.

It's freaking gaslighting and passive aggressive slyness, is what it actually is.

These same people use sarcasm and references so sly, so clear and yet so veiled, that they can then act the innocent about it, if challenged.

Because of the policy of no direct attacks, instead this place is rife with indirect passive aggressive attacks that the intended victim is not going to miss and will still bear the full brunt of, yet has no redress.

This is sickening, and so are the people here who do this stuff. Shame on you. Passive aggressive bullies who manage to stick your knife in and can't be called out on it because you make sure it doesn't technically break any rules.

It makes me feel like I don't want to share anything about myself or my experiences or my feelings or my problems here.

This is my only outlet for those things, yet I don't feel safe here. I have more than once noticed that a couple of people who I know are critical of me (I know this from former clashes and in other things they've said) pick up on stuff I've posted and managed to slam it somewhere else in these forums. That's worse than just doing it directly in the post they object to.

If you have a problem with something I've said about myself take it up with me. If you think I'm "blaming AS" for my own "failures" have the balls to say "Bird in Flight, I worry that you are not taking responsibility for your failings." At least have the balls to be direct with me and I can tell you right there it hurts that you say that and here's why.

Don't just take it to some other thread and manage to mention "some" people.

And don't try to tell me I'm paranoid and this hasn't happened here. Oh it freaking DOES. And not just to me. I've noticed others issues being criticized in this indirect way also.

I feel like one of the rules of this place ought to be that people on the spectrum can't bash the spectrum-specific issues of other people on the spectrum.

No more being permitted to say "I think some people make it an excuse" or similar. Everyone reading that can wonder if it the writer of those words means them, and that's not exactly something that makes this a good place to be. There should be a policy that people aren't allowed to attack the AS-fueled issues another member posts about. No more being able to blame and shame other spectrum people for things they've heard all their damn lives are their faults and failings. No more being free to post the kind of bashing of AS fueled problems posted by people who are HURTING.

Don't we get enough of this stuff from OTHER people?

i say other people meaning mostly the NT world but I'm not wholesale bashing "NTs" because that's another thing people here criticize people for doing. But I AM saying that NTs are often some of the people who do the most misunderstanding and bashing of US. Of we on the spectrum.

And so given that, don't you thing WE should give each other a RESPITE from that same stuff?

WP shouldn't be a place where even more of that takes place, autistic upon autistic.

It's actually appalling if you really think about it honestly and truthfully. It's appalling that people here are doing this to each other.

I'm not talking about the disagreement you will get with any collection of people, such as "I don't agree it's a disability/I don't agree with Autism Speaks/ I don't agree with you that how you handle meltdowns is the best way for someone else to handle them."

I'm not talking about people just disagreeing about STUFF.

I'm talking about people here giving a hard time to others with struggles, being sarcastic and skeptical to people about their very ASD and the effect it has on them, and all the other things I've mentioned.

I always hope I come here finding a place where I don't have to deal with that. I'm disappointed a lot. I find some of you people even more brutal to me in the various sneaky ways you go under the radar with that, than people in the general world out there.

I feel this place shouldn't be this way.

There are some of you I think are incredibly wonderful people. Good, decent, kind, wise, and GENTLE with the troubles of others.

There there are those of you who are the complete opposite and I feel unsafe admitting anything, sharing anything, confessing a weakness, lamenting a struggle, without fear of some of you using it against me and often pretty fast.

I took a break of a few days because this place upset me too much. I'm back posting TWO DAYS and someone is a jerk to me.

I'm not interested in anyone trying to tell me maybe I'm mistaken. Don't gaslight me. I know it when I see it. I've been bullied enough in real life to know it when I see it all over again.

And some of you who are harsh are even parents and should have a kinder outlook. I hope you are not as harsh to your kids when they start to have problems in life as any human will.

I think you are expecting too much from the site. It is made up of people; just like the outside world. And some of them are jerks. If I post something personal I will expect to get 20% negative reaction; sometimes less, sometimes way more. It sucks; just like in the real world.
Some of the things you mention bother me too. For example I wouldn't question someone's diagnosis of themselves; why would I, I have no way to know their diagnosis. I don't appreciate the number of neurotypicals that frequent here of late. I'm not sure why they think they have any business being here. I was once scolded for being insensitive to neurotypicals by a neurotypical. What are things coming to?
It really isn't a "safe" site anymore; it is travelled by so many different people.

Thanks androbot, I think what you say about expecting too much is probably reasonable; perhaps I do expect too much from the site. Humans are human and it doesn't matter what the collection of people are, I guess there's going to be a percentage of various reactions to anything anyone says about anything, really.

It's just that it guts me that it's not just about general things that people will set against each other for -- it's not just politics, religion, price of gas or someone's parenting wrong.

It's the ASD-related bashing by AS people, to AS people, that's the thing one shouldn't have to expect here of all places. Things like, the well regulated ones subtly shaming the ones who aren't coping as well. LF accusing HF of not being autistic at all. The ever present Diagnosisgate...lol. All of it.

I don't mind so much NTs being here, there are great ones here. Also, some are parents of As children and need to be here for help also. What really shocks me is we spectrum people bashing fellow spectrum people for spectrum issues or diagnosis issues. It just shouldn't happen.

Thanks for reading and posting, I appreciate your input.

I feel uncomfortable about my post but I had to express my hurt about this.

The majority of people here don't believe that people who self-diagnose themselves with autism are "fake."

Please feel safe here. Nobody is going to hurt you.

I certainly won't--even though, sometimes, you get upset at the things I say.

Thank you kraftie. I know you're a kind person; you never intentionally criticize someone else for their "faults".

I think about just never coming back here a lot.

I know what you mean. Sometimes, I've gotten pretty irritated here, too.

But then I realize.....that most of the people here only want to have a decent time here.

Most of them, I agree.

But sometimes I find that just knowing those other types are here and reading things I'm happy to share with well meaning people -- as most are -- yet know that it's going to be twisted into something by those who aren't so well meaning, makes for the unsafe feeling.

Some people have agendas. And they won't stray from them no matter what the arguments. Once I realize that a poster is like this I'm not as concerned about them anymore because they're not really thinking they are just spouting their dogma.

Hugs
I agree it's not ass safe as it once was. Some people here are relentless in their attacks. Trying to either push away or get people banned for not agreeeing with them on stuff.

Aw thank you for the hugs, sly! Hugs back to you and thanks, yes so much of that stuff going on.

Sorry you feel that way... People can be harsh and single-tracked here sometimes and I've had to learn to just ignore them. I haven't totally learned. But I do seriously question whether I should ever read or reply to anything in Love and Dating, for example, because the same old stuff will come up over and over again.

I tend to not expect much from people but it's still annoying. I can see how someone with bigger hopes for others would feel really annoyed. I might also miss some of the gaslighting and indirect attacks because they are too nuanced; for all I know they are going on right now against me...

It would help a lot to be able to mark certain people and just ignore all posts from them. Even if I missed out on context in a thread, I'd be ok. I guess Alex has more urgent things to fix so I keep a mental list of people to roll my eyes at. I try to remind myself that there are some people in here with some strong issues (myself included in some dimensions) and let it roll.

Hi Nine7752, yes, I wish there was a more effective feature that blocks your view of selected members' posts. There are other sites that have that. On this site it doesn't do anything! I notice that the blocked person's posts are missing from the Topic Review feed below the posting field when you make your own reply, but their posts still appear in the actual thread where you can read the member's posts along with everyone else's when you scroll through a thread. I know Alex has worked hard on the site and I thank him for it, but the way that blocking feature works doesn't make any difference, thus it's quite useless as a feature.

Sometimes there are just some people who you never want to read what they have to say because it's the same damaging opinion and maybe you've tried before to explain things or reason with them.

It's true one just has to let it roll away. It's so hard to do that when one has one's own sore points and either feel you are or know you are being "got at" by that person.

As for the Love & Dating section -- that's a notoriously difficult place to be. Once in a while I will see a topic in the "Newest" list overview and I'll want to offer a comment, but it's usually because I've failed to notice that the topic is posted in that forum!

I know what you mean I had to step back for a few months because I was getting so upset by it.

Maybe taking a break is a good idea? I hope your ok :')

hugs(((BirdInFlight)))hugs

Hi BiF. I was actually hurt by the same remark on a recent post that you were. I did think it was aimed at me. I had to step back and be silent. I've had a long life of having to do just that. I was concerned that you were hurt by it too. It puzzled me why someone makes such remarks. I don't know the full score, why someone makes judgements. Maybe I can come across like that when I really am referring to myself. Maybe everyone has a particular axe to grind. However we are not all here to sharpen their axes. I came to wp to try to understand and come to terms with life as I know it. I found interesting people I can identify with. Maybe I'll be ridiculed for saying it, maybe not. I'll say it anyway. Basically there's a whole bunch of caring people. NT or not. Who cares? The majority who post seem to and I guess many who listen in. Including you. We're all different personalities and if someone is actually grinding an axe, let them get on with it. We don't need weapons.

Possibly every member who has been here for a while has experienced some kind of unwarranted response that is unpleasant, unkind, unfair, uncalled for and unnecessary. Even Alex hasn't been immune from this, I think I recall at least one deluded poster who asserted that because of Alex's achievements, he was only faking AS and wasn't autistic at all. The rules address certain breaches, the most obvious kinds of personal attack and so on, though what causes the most pain to people on a day to day basis is the kind of sniping, prolonged targeting, discourtesy and undermining which falls short of being in breach of the rules, but which creates an atmosphere of threat and uncertainty for the targets.

Personally I think the "jihadist witchhunts on the self diagnosed" could be more strictly moderated than they have been in the past. The main reason I think this is that members are cautioned if they make a single personal attack on another member, but I have seen a few members get away with making mass-targeted personal attacks, along the lines of "all self-diagnosed people are deluded poseurs and liars and I know because I am a real diagnosed autistic" which are bound to offend and flame a large number of members. Are these not just as offensive? Both kinds of attack are hostile and cause at least the same amount of distress.

This is a support site, which aims to be an inclusive site, and there is no rule that members have to be formally diagnosed. Alex has made it abundantly clear that he wants it to be this way. For some of the jihadists, it seems to be a supremacy thing, an ego-driven form of hostility. However the jihadists are few, the reasonable members are many, and support is always readily offered to members in distress by others, even those who may have been disruptive up to that point in some way. Good will is the strength of WP, and the site has lasted so long and grown so much because of the abundant good will that members bring to it every day.

A buddy system via PM can be helpful in coping with the downside. Pairing up with another trusted member that you have a history of "good vibes" with for mutual support and validation when the going gets rough can really help.