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B19
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26 Oct 2016, 3:02 am

Well we have to agree to disagree then.



Shahunshah
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26 Oct 2016, 3:11 am

B19 wrote:
Well we have to agree to disagree then.


Okay debates aside, what made you want to respond so strongly at the start of this thread to begin with?



B19
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26 Oct 2016, 3:14 am

WP makes it clear that it is a neurodiverse support site. ABA is not a very good fit for that, unfortunately, and in the past ABA practitioners have come here not to learn but to tout their services, which is a very poor fit IMO. That is not to say that they all do, though ABA is still a poor fit here. Ableist therapies are hard to reconcile with neurodiverse perspectives and principles.



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26 Oct 2016, 3:29 am

B19 wrote:
WP makes it clear that it is a neurodiverse support site. ABA is not a very good fit for that, unfortunately, and in the past ABA practitioners have come here not to learn but to tout their services, which is a very poor fit IMO. That is not to say that they all do, though ABA is still a poor fit here. Ableist therapies are hard to reconcile with neurodiverse perspectives and principles.
I personally think its a good idea that we get to hear from a range of perspectives. Though I guess with ABA you may find it to be a little different like a practitioner might be offensive and patronizing to the forum. Am I right?



B19
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26 Oct 2016, 3:33 am

We have heard those perspectives already, here and elsewhere, indeed we are bombarded by them on the internet. ABA therapists are in business, and that is their choice, though this forum is about life on the spectrum, as it is lived, basically, recognising the diversity in the spectrum, and that is why WP is such a unique place.



Shahunshah
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26 Oct 2016, 3:54 am

B19 wrote:
We have heard those perspectives already, here and elsewhere, indeed we are bombarded by them on the internet. ABA therapists are in business, and that is their choice, though this forum is about life on the spectrum, as it is lived, basically, recognising the diversity in the spectrum, and that is why WP is such a unique place.
Yea it kind of reminds me of an experience I had on another forum, basically I can across a big long rant about someone talking about how autistic people are incapable of work and degrading them saying they were slave to their emotions. I recently confronted the person on it and am still in the midst of it.



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26 Oct 2016, 4:01 am

Good for you, S. Goodnight, I am going to bed now.



Krelliott4
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26 Oct 2016, 7:29 am

I didn't expect to wake up to all I those replies. And thank you for your thoughts and experienecs..

I do want you to ask yourself why would someone choose to work with indivuals on the spectrum but not only that but want to work specifically with those who have SIBs or HMBs? If my science and theories I choose to study and all are flawed or "wrong" ? Why would I choose to be in a field like that if it was all bad and not good?



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26 Oct 2016, 8:16 am

Krelliott4 wrote:
I didn't expect to wake up to all I those replies. And thank you for your thoughts and experienecs..

I do want you to ask yourself why would someone choose to work with indivuals on the spectrum but not only that but want to work specifically with those who have SIBs or HMBs? If my science and theories I choose to study and all are flawed or "wrong" ? Why would I choose to be in a field like that if it was all bad and not good?


You want us to try to interpret your thoughts? Isn't that just asking to get all offended when we get it wrong?

...reading this again.... the phrase "I want you to ask yourself..." That's how an instructor speaks to their students. You're thinking that WE'RE all wrong. And that if we think about it, we will change our minds and see it your way?

That's an interesting way to come at a new community.

My personal take on your behavior, I think I stated this before: Because of my own experience as a special educator, I assume that you have a lot in common with me. That you want to do well and you want to do right by your kids, but that you have been educated in ways that aren't really productive. Your head is full of "facts" about behavior challenged kids and "facts" about what works that aren't really true. I'm assuming that your coming here was because you actually do care. But you did come in "like a bull in a china shop."

You came in identifying yourself as an ABA practitioner before we knew anything else about you. I think this means that you assumed that we would LOVE a new ABA practitioner in our midst? That we would be, well... damaged somehow and that it would be OK to speak to us like you know and we don't. Like when you say things like "I want you to think [about what you've done.]" It implies that we're all up for being taught. When the reality is that most of us are here to teach. We're here to teach people like you, who are interested in being real with autistic people. And people like our younger selves, who haven't discovered the strength of who they are yet.



Krelliott4
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26 Oct 2016, 8:36 am

Your assumptions are killing me lol. Just Pm if you have a problem with me



somanyspoons
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26 Oct 2016, 12:57 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
B19 wrote:
No not at all. I think you have to be attuned to the child as an individual, to observe what reduces their fear, what calms them, what triggers them, and each is an individual. They are not animals to be trained, as if they were no more than that.
Well ABA therapy is more than that you see its also about conversing, understanding the other person's perspective, reading and writing not just treating children like animals. I think its a bold statement that ABA therapists are in tune to individual needs either since it is a common fact that autism therapies often use objects and materials to comfort certain autistic children. Your idea of raising a severely autistic child is sounding allot similar to this ABA therapy you keep criticizing.


They still only allow the comfort item when the child obeys. They only try to figure out what matters to the children so they can use it to manipulate them into compliance. Yes, some things have changed. Adversives are out, thank goodness. But the oppositional nature of ABA remains. Its still a matter of desires of the teacher verses the desires of the student.

Can we maybe NOT single out some autistic people as "severe" and therefore deserving of a different set of rules? If you listen to adults who are non-verbal or otherwise have significant autistic features, they hate it when we do this. It feels like they are being dehumanized. I would prefer that not to happen.



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26 Oct 2016, 1:00 pm

Krelliott4 wrote:
Your assumptions are killing me lol. Just Pm if you have a problem with me


No. If you are going to mock me publicly, question my values and my intentions publicly, and imply that I am anything less than intelligent and knowledgeable on this subject, you can also have the response publicly.



Krelliott4
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26 Oct 2016, 1:47 pm

And there it is lol more assumptions. Did I ever say anything about yours or anyone else's credibility and knowledge on any topic? NO!

I'm done. Bye



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26 Oct 2016, 3:39 pm

Krelliott4 wrote:
And there it is lol more assumptions. Did I ever say anything about yours or anyone else's credibility and knowledge on any topic? NO!

I'm done. Bye


If you really care about working with autistic children, you should be much more open to the input of autistic adults (who grew up as autistic children and have a lifetime's worth of experience being autistic to teach you with) than you are showing here. For an educator, you seem very closed-minded and I think that is a dangerous way to be if you are working with kids. You say we are making assumptions about you, but it seems that you have made a series of assumptions about autistic people and we are not living up to those assumptions you made about us and that is upsetting you. I suggest you give some thought as to what you can do about that and how you need to educate yourself about autism not just in children but in adults.

If you continue down this road without taking into account any input from autistic adults to help you understand the autistic kids you work with (because we understand them better than you do, because we used to BE them) then I fear for the kids who will be subjected to your ABA.


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Krelliott4
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26 Oct 2016, 3:50 pm

:thumleft: