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Ganondox
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15 Nov 2016, 6:54 pm

Which is better for pro-social behavior? Obviously, possessing BOTH would be ideal, but in and of itself which is more important? Intuitively it would seem kindness is more important, but there are two problems with this 1. good intentions are enough if someone makes things because of their ignorance and 2. often acting pro-socially is acting in one's best interest, so often just intelligence is required for one to act pro-socially in a given situation. So which do you think is more important?


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TheAP
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15 Nov 2016, 7:42 pm

What do you mean by pro-social behaviour?



Ganondox
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15 Nov 2016, 7:53 pm

TheAP wrote:
What do you mean by pro-social behaviour?


Behavior which benefits society. It's a pretty standard term.


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kraftiekortie
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15 Nov 2016, 10:16 pm

I would say kindness trumps intelligence in more than 50% of the cases. Especially within the social sphere.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 15 Nov 2016, 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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15 Nov 2016, 10:28 pm

I hate to say it but I'm not sure it's a helpful question.

The better vs. worse takes two only partially desirable situations and perhaps tries to compare their strengths and weaknesses but even there there's a whole other set of factors. For instance what about the less intelligent but kind person by luck a policy that's really on-point where as the intelligent and kind person has a pet-distortion that pulls them toward defending some kind of falsehood they believe in? The later happens all the time. You could similarly have the person whose intelligent but perhaps narcissistic applying their intelligence to save lives, they're just not the person you'd want to talk to at a holiday party because you might either get smugly brushed off or hear for hours about their golf game. The intelligent but kind person might be a top-flight ER doctor, the kind and intelligent person could be a Marxist professor, and the dumb but kind person may still have a knack for spotting competant people and digesting their ideas in a bite-sized manner.

Too many variables and I don't know that we are or ever will be up against such an either/or choice as that.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 15 Nov 2016, 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Drake
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15 Nov 2016, 10:29 pm

It's got to be intelligence overwhelmingly. We could be super kind to each other, but we'd be little better off than a pack of wolves without the intelligence that has advanced our species, the way that has made our lives easier overwhelmingly outweighs any amount of being nice to each other.



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15 Nov 2016, 11:30 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I hate to say it but I'm not sure it's a helpful question.

The better vs. worse takes two only partially desirable situations and perhaps tries to compare their strengths and weaknesses but even there there's a whole other set of factors. For instance what about the less intelligent but kind person by luck a policy that's really on-point where as the intelligent and kind person has a pet-distortion that pulls them toward defending some kind of falsehood they believe in? The later happens all the time. You could similarly have the person whose intelligent but perhaps narcissistic applying their intelligence to save lives, they're just not the person you'd want to talk to at a holiday party because you might either get smugly brushed off or hear for hours about their golf game. The intelligent but kind person might be a top-flight ER doctor, the kind and intelligent person could be a Marxist professor, and the dumb but kind person may still have a knack for spotting competant people and digesting their ideas in a bite-sized manner.

Too many variables and I don't know that we are or ever will be up against such an either/or choice as that.


I'll give context. I'm frustrated with my roomates because they're stupid. Everyone is so freaking stupid. I'd rather have smart roomates. :P

Drake wrote:
It's got to be intelligence overwhelmingly. We could be super kind to each other, but we'd be little better off than a pack of wolves without the intelligence that has advanced our species, the way that has made our lives easier overwhelmingly outweighs any amount of being nice to each other.


Let's assume that the kind but dumb person is of more or less average intelligence, and the intelligent but mean person has more or less average empathic capacities. Both are important for the progression of the human race. Would intelligence still be more important in that context?


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Drake
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15 Nov 2016, 11:51 pm

I would take a moron with a heart of gold over a genius with a black heart every time.

But it's tricky with the new question. I don't know. I do know if it was a roommate I'd take the kind one.



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16 Nov 2016, 3:01 am

Generally intelligence. It gets complicated, as there are figures who have a lot of ability to reason but have difficulty applying it to the social sphere. However, there are rules, there is social reasoning, and being aware of this level is a lot more helpful than being nice. There's also simply being useful, which often intelligence helps with as you can then independently solve more problems. Being useful is a lot better than being nice.

Kindness is still better than unlocked and less usable savant potential though.



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16 Nov 2016, 3:14 am

Ganondox wrote:
Let's assume that the kind but dumb person is of more or less average intelligence, and the intelligent but mean person has more or less average empathic capacities. Both are important for the progression of the human race. Would intelligence still be more important in that context?


Arbitrary archetypes don't help here, especially as you've described "average intelligence" as "dumb" (which, incidentally, betrays your own preference even more than your desire for intelligent roommates). A degree of intelligence is required in order to be kind, but kindness is not essential to being intelligent, ergo intelligence "wins".



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16 Nov 2016, 10:52 am

Intelligence brought us the atomic bomb. I love Einstein but he was too smart for his own good.

I would prefer everyone be incredibly stupid than everyone be incredibly smart. Problem is intelligent and kind people are needed to fight against intelligent and evil people. So it's not one or the other.



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16 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

Without intelligence, kindness does not arise.


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16 Nov 2016, 12:00 pm

Kindness Vs. Intelligence

I'm having some difficulty answering this question. It's not that I don't have preferences, but I have to know what I'm referencing.

If you allow someone to say: "Adolph Hitler was smart, but so evil he was the 'opposite' of 'pro-social behavior,'" and consider this evidence that kindness was better, then you end the conversation.

In order to discuss such things you need to set parameters by asking such questions as: "Is kindness necessary to create pro-social behavior? and/or "Is intelligence necessary to create pro-social behavior?" And then define your terms and subsequently discuss which is more admirable.

If you skip too far forward without discussing and agreeing upon the underlying facts you can't have an intelligent conversation.



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16 Nov 2016, 12:26 pm

Ganondox wrote:
I'll give context. I'm frustrated with my roomates because they're stupid. Everyone is so freaking stupid. I'd rather have smart roomates.

"Stupid" is subjective, isn't it. I don't mean to be rude----but, I'm thinking that they are thinking, most likely, that YOU are stupid. Why can't it be that y'all are just different, from each other?

If you have ever seen the TV show "The Big Bang Theory", and liked the character "Penny"----NOT because she's hot / cute / blonde / whatever----but, because you've thought: "Hm, she's not so stupid, afterall"; it is because, IMO, that there are different types of intelligence, or "not-stupid" people. Penny, certainly, can't compete in the physics world; but, because she doesn't have a degree, in that subject----but, I certainly wouldn't discount her "street smarts", "farm smarts", "life smarts", or her "social smarts". I mean, just think of how many people think WE, ASDers, are stupid, cuz we can't figure-out someone's facial expression, for instance----or, know when someone is being sarcastic----PENNY would know those things, with no problem! Now, grant-it, that doesn't make Penny over-all intelligent, maybe----but, nor does it make us, over-all, stupid, usually; it all depends-on how one defines "stupid".


Drake wrote:
I would take a moron with a heart of gold over a genius with a black heart every time.

Me, TOO----ESPECIALLY, because it's, sometimes, very difficult talking to intelligent people, cuz they think they're the only one, who knows anything (sometimes); SMART people (not to be confused with intelligent people) aren't as difficult to have a conversation with, IMO.




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16 Nov 2016, 2:02 pm

While in the back of my head, I'm thinking, "Stupid people need to be told their stupid," the fact remains, in order to survive in the world you have to be amiable and polite. So, I'll go with kindness.


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16 Nov 2016, 2:16 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Which is better for pro-social behavior? Obviously, possessing BOTH would be ideal, but in and of itself which is more important? Intuitively it would seem kindness is more important, but there are two problems with this 1. good intentions are enough if someone makes things because of their ignorance and 2. often acting pro-socially is acting in one's best interest, so often just intelligence is required for one to act pro-socially in a given situation. So which do you think is more important?

I can't see these two things as oppositional. An intelligent person would see the value in kindness.

Perhaps kindness is not the right word for the question; what about intelligence vs. likability? Likable people are socially at ease and get along well with others. Intelligence does come into conflict with this because the smarter you are the more likely it is that you know more and are easily bored with others. I think NT people enjoy the company of others and as such are more easy going socially. For me socializing is exchange of information.