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cyberdad
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07 Feb 2020, 8:36 pm

And So It Goes wrote:
I try to personally respect individual beliefs of either my closest friends or acquaintances, but I cannot tolerate strawman arguments, so it's easier to keep the peace and block out the irrelevant hyperbole of such group-think.


Actually that's not a bad philosophy in principle but respect should always be subjective to scrutiny and whether the people you respect actually deserve it. But only you will know.



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07 Feb 2020, 8:39 pm

Temple Grandin is famous for much more than "studying horses."

I once broke a kid's wrist ligaments because he followed me around calling me "retard."



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07 Feb 2020, 9:37 pm

I wish the video went along with this, but this captures my feelings on it precisely.
Doug Stanhope captures many of my ASD thoughts very well.



cyberdad
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07 Feb 2020, 9:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Temple Grandin is famous for much more than "studying horses."


I know that but I was responding to the poster who made the statement



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07 Feb 2020, 11:35 pm

As far as I'm concerned, I view the word retard in a similar manner to the "N" word. Black people use the latter all the time when communicating with each other and it's perfectly fine, but a white person uses it and suddenly it's a slur. Likewise, I'll use retard when talking about myself or other friends of mine who's minds (like mine) might not always process things the right way, but anyone who's "normally functioning" says it and I'll get defensive, stating that it's "our word", much like how black people have their word. It even reminds me of the subtle commentary in Zootopia where Judy Hoops states that it's perfectly fine for one bunny to call another bunny "cute", but that it has negative connotations when a completely different species uses that same word to describe said bunny. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Just had to get that off my chest.



cyberdad
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08 Feb 2020, 1:56 am

Kenya wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I view the word retard in a similar manner to the "N" word. Black people use the latter all the time when communicating with each other and it's perfectly fine, but a white person uses it and suddenly it's a slur. Likewise, I'll use retard when talking about myself or other friends of mine who's minds (like mine) might not always process things the right way, but anyone who's "normally functioning" says it and I'll get defensive, stating that it's "our word", much like how black people have their word. It even reminds me of the subtle commentary in Zootopia where Judy Hoops states that it's perfectly fine for one bunny to call another bunny "cute", but that it has negative connotations when a completely different species uses that same word to describe said bunny. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Just had to get that off my chest.


I think that's reasonable



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08 Feb 2020, 9:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
Actually that's not a bad philosophy in principle but respect should always be subjective to scrutiny and whether the people you respect actually deserve it. But only you will know.


It's a tightrope walk when you have friends you've known for years who could instantly turn on you if you reveal your true political ideals. It's why I seldom discuss such subjects in certain places online.


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08 Feb 2020, 12:12 pm

Kenya wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I view the word retard in a similar manner to the "N" word. Black people use the latter all the time when communicating with each other and it's perfectly fine, but a white person uses it and suddenly it's a slur. Likewise, I'll use retard when talking about myself or other friends of mine who's minds (like mine) might not always process things the right way, but anyone who's "normally functioning" says it and I'll get defensive, stating that it's "our word", much like how black people have their word. It even reminds me of the subtle commentary in Zootopia where Judy Hoops states that it's perfectly fine for one bunny to call another bunny "cute", but that it has negative connotations when a completely different species uses that same word to describe said bunny. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Just had to get that off my chest.


I like your approach, but to me the words are very different.
The "N" word was born out of hate.
The word retard was born out of compassion. Originally the medical terms for the population with remarkably below average life functioning skills were imbecile and moron. Once the public adopted these words to call their friends when they did something stupid, the word retard became the next medical term. Which of course the public adopted to call their friends when they did something stupid.

The words have two completely opposite origins.



cyberdad
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08 Feb 2020, 5:04 pm

And So It Goes wrote:
It's a tightrope walk when you have friends you've known for years who could instantly turn on you if you reveal your true political ideals. It's why I seldom discuss such subjects in certain places online.


Interesting point. One of the things I am beginning to realise is the importance of not publicly stating your religious or political stance on things as it's a sure fire way of losing friends.

Online forums should different because of anonymity but people get triggered easily even when the posts are directed at external people in the news



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08 Feb 2020, 6:51 pm

I'm fully in favor of losing friends over political beliefs. Much of what they believe politically comes through in their friendships. Both Republicans and Democrats believe in the progressive notion that morality needs to be policed through government. I've seen far too many instances of this belief shining through in their relationships. I don't need rulers and I don't need anyone deciding what's best for me. I'll own my own life thank you.

Obviously I have very few friends but the one's I have are true friends who respect my personal sovereignty.



cyberdad
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08 Feb 2020, 7:39 pm

Yeah I think that's fair.

However it's hard work navigating friendship where the beliefs/attitudes of your friends don't align with your own. I think you need to have high amounts of flexibility in terms of personality type.



And So It Goes
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09 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
Interesting point. One of the things I am beginning to realise is the importance of not publicly stating your religious or political stance on things as it's a sure fire way of losing friends.


And careers! One thing I worry about the most when I am close to where I wish to be.

cyberdad wrote:
Online forums should different because of anonymity but people get triggered easily even when the posts are directed at external people in the news


I left an online group out of frustration, after I was persistently pestered to amend posts and fix a Trigger Warning alert strapline to my content. My argument was that life doesn't have a trigger warning.

I am aware others aren't as desensitised as me, but I don't like the idea of being mollycoddled in a safe space. Each to their own, I guess.


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09 Feb 2020, 11:21 am

I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, but has somebody made a distinction between the word "retard" as an epithet vs. "retarded" as an adjective? Until fairly recently, it was considered perfectly acceptable to describe somebody whose primary disability is to have a low intellectual capacity, usually to the extent they cannot succeed in "regular" public school etc. Having a son in Special Olympics, I could identify a number of people I know who, it you look at them, would seem perfectly normal except you will sooner or later recognize their intellect is too far "below normal" for them to every be completely independent. In my state, there is a non-profit called "The Arc" and its name was originally an abbreviation for "The Association for Retarded Citizens" until 1992 when they dropped that. The only problem I have, is that nobody has yet come up with a simple but acceptable term to replace that. So 30 years ago, you could legitimately say a person was "retarded" and it simply meant they had a primarily intellectual (as opposed to neurological, etc.) disability. Nowadays I wouldn't know a straightforward way to communicate the same thing except with some sort of overblown circumlocution.


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09 Feb 2020, 3:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
And So It Goes wrote:
It's a tightrope walk when you have friends you've known for years who could instantly turn on you if you reveal your true political ideals. It's why I seldom discuss such subjects in certain places online.


Interesting point. One of the things I am beginning to realise is the importance of not publicly stating your religious or political stance on things as it's a sure fire way of losing friends.

Online forums should different because of anonymity but people get triggered easily even when the posts are directed at external people in the news


My personal Facebook posts rarely get political for just that reason. When I do go there I will opine on a subject very few would be offended by. Another reason since I am not wedded to a "team" if I posted my opinions I would alienate everybody. I have friends, family, acquaintances, and old classmates whose political beliefs range from Bernie socialists to "f**k Sensitivity" full-on Trumpers.

Ok boomer moment here but it really did not used to be that way. I am sure you think I am way too conservative if only you knew what I thought back in the 70s :D . In college I was the outlier most people who were into politics were liberal, this was right after Vietnam and Watergate. We got along and political discussions did not usually end with people walking off or throwing punches despite people being saying more actually offensive things most certainly including retarded in that pre politically correct era.


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09 Feb 2020, 3:51 pm

MaxE wrote:
I haven't read all 16 pages of this thread, but has somebody made a distinction between the word "retard" as an epithet vs. "retarded" as an adjective? Until fairly recently, it was considered perfectly acceptable to describe somebody whose primary disability is to have a low intellectual capacity, usually to the extent they cannot succeed in "regular" public school etc. Having a son in Special Olympics, I could identify a number of people I know who, it you look at them, would seem perfectly normal except you will sooner or later recognize their intellect is too far "below normal" for them to every be completely independent. In my state, there is a non-profit called "The Arc" and its name was originally an abbreviation for "The Association for Retarded Citizens" until 1992 when they dropped that. The only problem I have, is that nobody has yet come up with a simple but acceptable term to replace that. So 30 years ago, you could legitimately say a person was "retarded" and it simply meant they had a primarily intellectual (as opposed to neurological, etc.) disability. Nowadays I wouldn't know a straightforward way to communicate the same thing except with some sort of overblown circumlocution.


Would the term 'intellectually impaired' count as some sort of overblown circumlocution?