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Spanking a cure for mental illness

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Kraichgauer
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10 Dec 2016, 4:52 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
that which doesn't kill us only weakens us, for the most part.


Raptor wrote:
^Have you always been like this?


I can't speak fore auntblabby,

I wasn't trolling but just wondering why that person is always under a dark cloud.

Quote:
but, yes, I always was. Within the church I grew up in, the prevailing attitude to raising children was you need to break them like you break a wild horse: with extreme cruelty, so they become 100% compliant to your will, as well as the will of a very jealous, cruel God.

We were Methodist (Nazarene for a while) but for the most part they didn't seen to dote on discipline although it was encouraged here and there. The more elderly members seem to talk about it the most but the way they've lived to see things turn to s**t I can see why.

I don't necessarily believe that God is cruel or jealous. The scriptures were written by men with preordained notions and probably personal agendas to satisfy as well . I do not think the bible is BS but that the written word needs to be thought through some before applying it to our lives. Only God knows the true nature of God and we can only hypothesize.


The church I grew up in taught the worst tenets of 5 point Calvinism (especially salvation is for the elect.), as well as Arminianism (you can lose your salvation as fast as you gained it.

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And you wonder why I never dated, married or have children...

No, I wasn't wondering. In fact I didnt know. Not all of us put that much personal information on the internet.


I alluded to that in other posts. Like mom, I have a short fuse. I'd probably be on death row by now if I were married and had kids.[/quote]

Trust me, even for the most embittered and caustic, being a spouse and a parent can offer more joy than grief.


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10 Dec 2016, 5:06 pm

Misslizard wrote:
You can't slap the Tourette's out of a child.

Okay, I've been reading this thread from day-one, and trying to figure-out how I feel about this topic----or, at least, trying to figure-out how to EXPRESS what I feel; now, I'm gonna give it a go.....

I have Tourette's Syndrome, and whenever I did all of my little "weird" things (sighing, clearing my throat, jerking my head, feet, hands, etc., etc., etc), my mother would yell----or, slap----but, here's the thing..... She taught me to control myself, better----she, IMO, disciplined me, so that I would curb my tics in public, for instance; and, thereby, discipline MYSELF. Now, she didn't want me looking like a spaz or ret*d, cuz it made her look bad, she said----but, it also made ME look bad (cuz the things I did were socially unacceptable), brought ridicule and negative attention to myself, and so-on----but, did her slapping me, "cure" me? No. I'm GLAD, however, that she got me to control myself; or else, people putting me down would've been alot WORSE (the amount of people, and the amount of put-downs).

As for spanking OTHER "mental illness" out of a kid: I don't think spanking would make a mental illness "all gone", but I'm thinking it could be thought-of, as sort-of a therapy----as in, something that aids one, in improving. I'm thinking that ALL people----kids AND adults----need discipline; some more, some less; and, maybe, ASDers need a little more, because of our "shortcomings" in the Executive Functioning department. When I think about how absolutely laborious it is for me to figure-out how to do something, sometimes----and, the fact that I too often just give-up, to try again ANOTHER day----I wish I had MORE discipline in making myself DO.

Yes----yes----I know----we have ASD, so it's not easy for us; but, if I didn't absolutely, like, "beat" myself (not literal) into making a decision, and following-through, it would NEVER get easier, IMO----NOT that everything is a piece of cake; but, I think we're doing ourselves a terrible injustice, if we don't keep pushing ourselves.

I think the same, or similar, can be said about some mental illnesses, as well----for instance, when I have an anxiety attack, that could be absolutely debilitating if I allowed it, I just have to, like, talk myself out of it, the best I can (and, luckily, I have medicine), and keep goin'. There's been times when my anxiety, and / or reactive hypoglycemia (caused by anxiety), for instance, has cost me a job----but, gosh-darn-it, I've selfishly grown accustomed to electricity, so I just have to pick myself up, and go again (discipline myself). The other day I was having a panic attack so badly, I would've LOVED to just lie-down, and let life pass me by----but, instead, I MADE myself go-on, did what I call "very conscientious" breathing (taking note of breathing in and out), kept telling myself "WALK, stupid", and kept going-over my grocery list, item-by-item, in my mind (anything to take my mind off of the attack)..... When I got home, hours later, it was only BEGINNING to subside, but I made it!!

I feel that's all my mother was trying to get me to do----I often hear her words, come back to me----and, to get me to see that "it's a jungle out there and you'll be eaten, if you don't do things properly".

I also feel that people are often, seemingly, wanting to use the words "discipline" and "abuse", interchangeably----and, IMO, the two are NOT the same; one can discipline without abusing. For instance, when my mother slapped me upside the head, when I was acting like what I consider a ret*d (like, doing some kind of stimming----and, that's not socially acceptable), I was / am okay with that----in FACT, as I said, I'm GLAD for that. When she, however, out of pure ANGER, beat me with a hot pancake turner, that was NOT, then, IMO, discipline----she WAS trying to get me to mind, but she snapped and lost control, and that's when it turned into something else (abuse), IMO.

I feel I deal with life MUCH better, because my mother disciplined me----and, as I said, I feel EVERYBODY (child OR adult) should have discipline, whether they have mental illness, physical limitations, ASD, or whatever. I don't, however, think spanking (discipline) "cures" mental illness----but, I DO think it can keep it from being WORSE, sometimes.




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10 Dec 2016, 5:39 pm

marcb0t wrote:
marshall wrote:
I would love to beat the everloving s**t out of Bannon. Curb stomp his f*****g ass.

Then you are no better than him.

There is some need of discipline in the life of every child.

Even autistic children will at some point need some hands on discipline from a loving parent. Within reason, of course.

I do think however, that there are many children who are diagnosed with ADHD, Aspergers, or my favorite Opposition Defiance Disorder, when all they may really need is a good spanking. Or perhaps the unplugging of the TV, and actually getting involved in the life of their child, to find out their special learning needs and personality.

A parent ought to be the best diagnoser of what's best for their child. But many parents neglect their children. Other parents go the other extreme and physically and emotionally abuses their kids. There needs to be a reasonable balance, which comes from a parents self sacrifice and actual caring of their children.

I AGREE----especially, the parts I've emphasized----and, I'd like to add to the "balance" part, that, IMO, consistency is EVERYTHING (from Astronomy to Zoology); for instance, I have often felt that when people have said their parent(s) hit them, and it didn't do any good, it was because the parents weren't consistent in when they spanked, and how often, etc.----one can't, IMO, spank one day for something, and then, NOT spank the very next day, when the exact same thing, is done.




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10 Dec 2016, 6:05 pm

Misslizard and Campin_Cat wrote:
...so those of us who are stronger should defend those who can't do it for themselves.

I can agree with that----but, as long as someone has TRIED. We all have our limitations----even NTs----but, if someone doesn't give it a try (DESPITE their limitations), it's very difficult for me to feel sorry for them and help them.

Some folks just don't have a mean streak in them.I know I do,and it has helped me to survive.

Yep, I can definitely relate to this----'cept, I refer to it as being aggressive, in regard to myself.

And that same mean streak makes me want to take up for those who are unable to do so for themselves.

Yep, I do this, as well. I was always taught: "When you make-it-through, reach-back and grab your brother's hand, and pull HIM through, TOO" (later, I realized that came from the gospel of Matthew), and that's what I've always tried to do.






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10 Dec 2016, 6:23 pm

Can I spank the adults that I consider to be mentally ill?



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10 Dec 2016, 6:32 pm

If a kid tries to put the cat in the microwave,and they are old enough to know what that would do to the cat.Then I'd say a spanking would be in order.And that goes for any kid,mentally ill or not.I'm not saying they get a free pass on discipline.
Some kids with sensory issues are just not going to respond well to any paddling.My folks found other ways to discipline me.The only time I was ever slapped in the face was when two relations were babysitting me.I was around five and spilled grape juice on their new pristine white carpet.It was an accident,now if I'd poured it out on purpose this would have been different.But I don't think face slapping is ok.That's just my opnion.Anyway my Daddy called to check on me and when I told him that I had been slapped he was livid.Told me to put them on the phone.All the relative was saying was "Yes,sir,Yes,sir." They were told to bring me right home.He was waiting for them on the porch with his arms crossed and a look I'd never seen before.I don't know what was said becuse I was told to go in the house.But I know he never raised his voice,I would have heard it.He didn't have to,at 6ft 6 former Master Sargent in the Army WW ll He didn't have to,his eyes said it all.They never laid a hand on me again.He never spanked me,he said he couldn't.He had severe PTSD from combat and the thought of striking a child with his hands just wasn't in him.He truly was a gentle giant.
Slapping wouldn't have helped me at all,maybe it would for others.I really don't like most forms of touching,I find a neck massage to be painful so a paddling or slapping would just be over the limit on stimulus.We are all different and respond in different ways.It would have made me more withdrawn and mistrustful..I would have developed a strong hatred for those that did that to me.I would have become a Super Villian lol or more likely,a Private Pyle.
My folks helped me with my stims by getting me a worry stone and teaching me to crochet and embroider..It worked.Even just pulling yarn thru my fingers or braiding it was soothing.In school I channeled that into doodling and drawing.Then there were the games you played with a loop of string or yarn.Jacobs ladder was one of those,and Cats Cradle if you had another kid to play with.I learned to stim in private by wiggling my toes in my shoes.
I was never punished for a meltdown,they just made sure I didn't hurt myself.If someone had spanked me,I just would have screamed more, and it would have been a longer meltdown.


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10 Dec 2016, 8:16 pm

Misslizard and Campin_Cat wrote:
If a kid tries to put the cat in the microwave,and they are old enough to know what that would do to the cat.Then I'd say a spanking would be in order.

It's very interesting to me, that you said THIS /\----and then, turned-around, and said THIS:

Slapping wouldn't have helped me at all,maybe it would for others.

It seems contradictory, to me----like, if you, as a child, tried to put the cat in the microwave, and you as an adult, thought you should've gotten spanked, then..... ?

I'm also wondering if you've spanked your OWN kids, because you feel you should've been spanked, as a child? You seem to have as stridently defended your spanking your OWN children, as you have stridently stated it wouldn't have done you, any good.

I find a neck massage to be painful...

I do, too----but, I've found that it was because I wasn't able to (or, wasn't WILLING to), relax (it depended on the person, usually----and, whether or not I wanted to totally let my guard, down, to them).

...so a paddling or slapping would just be over the limit on stimulus.

Of COURSE, it would've been "over the limit on stimulus"----that's what it's SUPPOSE to be, to bring your attention to what you did wrong, so you'll remember it and not do it again.

It would have made me more withdrawn and mistrustful. I would have developed a strong hatred for those that did that to me.

Of COURSE it would've made you withdraw, mistrustful, and develop a hatred----that's what ALL kids feel, INITIALLY; because, all they know is, they wanted to do something, and somebody wouldn't let 'em; then, after they learn the value of discipline, they think differently. Again, why did you spank your OWN kids? (Was it because you learned the value of discipline?) Yeah, one could argue that their OWN kids are different, than they were as a child----but, you said:

And that goes for any kid,mentally ill or not.

************************************************

My folks helped me with my stims by getting me a worry stone...

LOL I'm laughing, thinking of my mother getting me a worry stone----she wouldn't have gotten me a worry stone, any more than she would've gotten me a pony, for my birthday!! She would've just said: "Get over yourself"----or, "Quit actin' so stupid"----so, eventually, I DID ("get over myself"----at-this-point, in my life, it doesn't seem like I'll ever quit acting stupid! LOL).

...and teaching me to crochet and embroider. It worked. Even just pulling yarn thru my fingers or braiding it was soothing.

IMO, it didn't work cuz they did something special for ya, though----it worked, cuz crocheting does that for ANYBODY, who enjoys doing it (it does the same thing, for ME); and, ANYTHING will soothe somebody, if they enjoy doing it.

If someone had spanked me,I just would have screamed more, and it would have been a longer meltdown.

Of COURSE you would've screamed more if someone would have spanked you, but that's because it would have SHOCKED you----ESPECIALLY, if your parents had never done it, before----but, I'm thinking your meltdown would NOT have been longer, cuz it would've been shocked outta ya (that is, IMO, one of the reasons why, sometimes, a kid has to be spanked, AGAIN, for doing the exact same thing----because being spanked shocked them so badly, it made them totally forget why they were being spanked, in the FIRST place; then, the next time they're spanked, they remember better, cuz they're not as shocked at being spanked).

Tell me----did either of your kids ever scream when you spanked them? If they did, what was your response? You didn't NOT spank them, the next time, didja?





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10 Dec 2016, 9:26 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
And you wonder why I never dated, married or have children...

No, I wasn't wondering. In fact I didnt know. Not all of us put that much personal information on the internet.


I alluded to that in other posts. Like mom, I have a short fuse. I'd probably be on death row by now if I were married and had kids.


Allow me to introduce to you my lovely wife Gertrude.

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Ain't she a peach? :P


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10 Dec 2016, 9:30 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Not sure if I agree with Neitszche on that.It would depend on the temperament of the person.Knock me down and I'll just get angry and rise up.Not everyone has the same disposition.There are lions and there are lambs.I'd prefer that the lambs got to remain lambs.

That has nothing to do with the fact I enjoy leg of lamb with rosemary. :D


Lambs can be lambs if they want to but they need to realise that they will be food for the coyotes and wolves. I saw at a young age what happens to human lambs (kids that are too "different" and weak) at the hands of coyotes and wolves (bullies) so I pretty much destined myself then not to be a lamb.

Although I'm not a jarhead, I've always been fond of the USMC "improvise, adapt, and overcome" motto and apply it to myself.

That's why there are Shepherds and Great Pyrennes. :D To protect the lambs.A. soldier protects his country,so those of us who are stronger should defend those who can't do it for themselves.Some folks just don't have a mean streak in them.I know I do,and it has helped me to survive.And that same mean streak makes me want to take up for those who are unable to do so for themselves.


Yeah well there's not always going to be a shepherd and his dog around to save the little lambs which is why they need to cowboy up and do it for themselves.


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10 Dec 2016, 9:33 pm

marcb0t wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Only God knows the true nature of God and we can only hypothesize.

You are only half correct.

God DOES know the true nature of God.


Then you didn't read what I said.


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10 Dec 2016, 10:32 pm

marcb0t wrote:
marshall wrote:
I would love to beat the everloving s**t out of Bannon. Curb stomp his f*****g ass.

Then you are no better than him.

You'll find the progressives on this forum to be a violent lot when something gets thier dander up.Here's just a few examples:

khaoz wrote:
Raptor wrote:
U still mad about O'keefe getting ACORN in trouble over prostitution and tax evasion?


If Acorn was caught in wrongdoing I have no problem with them getting caught and punished. They got what they deserve, but lying, cowardly punks like O'Keefe who set people up should be dragged down a gravel back road behind a tractor until every shred of skin has been peeled from his body. The ends do not justify the means. Not for people of honour. Not for civilized people.


Note the last sentence about "civilised people" that came after wanting to drag people down a gravel road behind a tractor.

http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=269159&postdays=30&postorder=asc&start=0


Persimmonpudding wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Ah, the troll accusation again. :mrgreen:
I'd love to cut your throat.

Mods, your incompetence and your unwillingness to curb this troll are among the reasons that the Internet continues to suck. As long as you attack those who call this jerk out and fail to deal with scumbags who provoke others for their childish amusement, this forum will never generate respectable discussion. I denounce you as incompetent. You are failures.


http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=276624&start=90


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10 Dec 2016, 11:03 pm

Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
And you wonder why I never dated, married or have children...

No, I wasn't wondering. In fact I didnt know. Not all of us put that much personal information on the internet.


I alluded to that in other posts. Like mom, I have a short fuse. I'd probably be on death row by now if I were married and had kids.


Allow me to introduce to you my lovely wife Gertrude.

Image

Ain't she a peach? :P



'Tain't funny, McGee! Welcome back to my sh!t list!



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10 Dec 2016, 11:04 pm

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.



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11 Dec 2016, 12:49 am

Meistersinger wrote:
'Tain't funny, McGee! Welcome back to my sh!t list!


I take it you don't like Frau Raptor. :(
I'd love to say more but that would only precipitate another TOS.


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11 Dec 2016, 12:50 am

It's trying to eat my posts when I use quote.
@Campin_cat
It probably would be better to just find the cat a new home as punishment,certainly healthier for the cat.I used that for an example of extreme naughtiness.I wouldn't have done that as a kid but if I did some form of punishment would have been in order.I mentioned that I did get swats with the fly swatter when small.Just enough negative enforcement to work but not enough to overload.But yes,if I did that,then I wouldn't hold that against them since it involved a living creature.But that's nowhere near the same as smacking a kid for stimming.

I don't think I should have been beat like a mule when I overloaded.And I know myself and it wouldn't have worked.To this day I still dislike the person that beat me with a belt.The first person I truly hated as a child.
Maybe it worked out well for you,but we are not the same person.And I'm very glad that my folks didn't slap me for stimming.When I was disobedient they took toys away and restrictions,it worked well on me.

My kids are not autistic or mentally ill,so I can't compare myself to them.You also can't put all of us in the same mold,same with kids.I only spanked with open palm on bare bottom or a keen switch if we were outside and it was to the calf.
I never had to spank that much,it was only when they were smaller and in extreme cases.Like when my son caught the field on fire.That could have been serious if it got out in the woods and we were lucky it didn't.When they got older we took the four wheeler keys away,phone and grounded them.Now that really hurts a teen in a rural area,that would have prefered a paddling.It would have been over quick.The other was loss of four wheeler privledges for days.Talk about hearing wailing and moaning.lol
Of course they hollered when paddled.But discipline isn't always with pain.Extra garden chores,laundry duty are all ways to get a point across without hitting a kid.I made them work garden rows and they have thanked me for that now that they are older.It taught them discipline and hard work.Plus they learned how to grow food.Dont do the chores,don't get ungrounded.

I'm guessing your mom got the same sort of discipline when she was a child and passed it down.I don't think my parents received the same.They were very quiet people and never cussed or raised their voices.Some people are just more physical and maybe that's just their nature.
I don't think a child should ever be hit in the face,we will just have to disagree on that.

I'm thankful my folks took the time to find ways to help me deal with stims,everything I am that's good and decent I owe to them.Not becuse they beat the s**t out of me.But becuse of the fine example they set,for their unconditional love and support.its easier to smack a kid than look for solutions.Most of the time I was a easy kid to deal with,give me a book,art supplies or some dirt to dig in and I was busy and quiet for hours.I don't know how you behaved,maybe you were more rambunctious and a handful.Maybe your mom just needed Valium.

I've tried massage several times,the only one I like is where they put the hot stones on the backbone.Now that is just awesome.


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