Restrained Autistic Student dies on bus

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ASPartOfMe
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26 Dec 2016, 9:17 am

Like I said I do not know but if I would hazard a guess I would guess one of four general possibilities, deliberate cold blooded murder is not one of them.

1. Poor Training

2. They lost their temper and lost control

3. They were trying to hurt but not kill him

4. Preexisting medical condition

5. Some combination of 1 through 4

If two or three happened the workers need to be prosecuted, if 4 happened and the school knew about, it some administrators need to be prosecuted If 1 happened the school needs to be sued.

If the deceased had a preexisting condition but it was not known, should they have? This is complicated as people die from previously unknown conditions all the time. If the school hired quack doctors the probably should get sued, but even that is complicated if it is a public school as taxpayers might have not funded them properly.

If you think I am being harsh all I am doing is asking for accountability for professionals whose job description is partially about protecting students from themselves just as you want from the disabled students.


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androbot01
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26 Dec 2016, 9:42 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
2. They lost their temper and lost control

This reason is particularly ironic.



EzraS
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26 Dec 2016, 12:48 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Like I said I do not know but if I would hazard a guess I would guess one of four general possibilities, deliberate cold blooded murder is not one of them.

1. Poor Training

2. They lost their temper and lost control

3. They were trying to hurt but not kill him

4. Preexisting medical condition

5. Some combination of 1 through 4

If two or three happened the workers need to be prosecuted, if 4 happened and the school knew about, it some administrators need to be prosecuted If 1 happened the school needs to be sued.

If the deceased had a preexisting condition but it was not known, should they have? This is complicated as people die from previously unknown conditions all the time. If the school hired quack doctors the probably should get sued, but even that is complicated if it is a public school as taxpayers might have not funded them properly.

If you think I am being harsh all I am doing is asking for accountability for professionals whose job description is partially about protecting students from themselves just as you want from the disabled students.


I think you're being very realistic. The only theory I take exception to is the idea that the victim provoked action against his person which resulted in his death.

Hopefully there will be some followup news including the cause of death.



ASPartOfMe
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26 Dec 2016, 5:22 pm

androbot01 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
2. They lost their temper and lost control

This reason is particularly ironic.


I had not thought about it, but now that you pointed it out it the irony is obvious.


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27 Dec 2016, 1:21 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Like I said I do not know but if I would hazard a guess I would guess one of four general possibilities, deliberate cold blooded murder is not one of them.

1. Poor Training

2. They lost their temper and lost control

3. They were trying to hurt but not kill him

4. Preexisting medical condition

5. Some combination of 1 through 4

If two or three happened the workers need to be prosecuted, if 4 happened and the school knew about, it some administrators need to be prosecuted If 1 happened the school needs to be sued.

If the deceased had a preexisting condition but it was not known, should they have? This is complicated as people die from previously unknown conditions all the time. If the school hired quack doctors the probably should get sued, but even that is complicated if it is a public school as taxpayers might have not funded them properly.

If you think I am being harsh all I am doing is asking for accountability for professionals whose job description is partially about protecting students from themselves just as you want from the disabled students.



Or another speculation, when the teachers butted in to break up the fight, the autistic student started to attack the staff so they fought back in self defense and he died that way. If anyone started attacking me, it would either be I would try and get away or I fight back in self defense to get them away from me and then I run. It would be a fight or flight response. A disorder wouldn't matter. Only thing it would matter is I had someone attacking me and they were much bigger than me so I fought back. I am unlikely to kill them of course because I wouldn't be strong enough but my husband probably would of he saw anyone hurting our children or me. He would also be in fight or flight response as well while defending and then he would plead insanity if the attacker was mentally ill or severely autistic or intellectually impaired. But I would be sure the killing would be unintentional on my husband's part. It would just be a tragic thing and not a crime IMO. It would be a time to feel sad for both parties and see it as an accident and sad.


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ASPartOfMe
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27 Dec 2016, 3:20 am

League_Girl wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Like I said I do not know but if I would hazard a guess I would guess one of four general possibilities, deliberate cold blooded murder is not one of them.

1. Poor Training

2. They lost their temper and lost control

3. They were trying to hurt but not kill him

4. Preexisting medical condition

5. Some combination of 1 through 4

If two or three happened the workers need to be prosecuted, if 4 happened and the school knew about, it some administrators need to be prosecuted If 1 happened the school needs to be sued.

If the deceased had a preexisting condition but it was not known, should they have? This is complicated as people die from previously unknown conditions all the time. If the school hired quack doctors the probably should get sued, but even that is complicated if it is a public school as taxpayers might have not funded them properly.

If you think I am being harsh all I am doing is asking for accountability for professionals whose job description is partially about protecting students from themselves just as you want from the disabled students.



Or another speculation, when the teachers butted in to break up the fight, the autistic student started to attack the staff so they fought back in self defense and he died that way. If anyone started attacking me, it would either be I would try and get away or I fight back in self defense to get them away from me and then I run. It would be a fight or flight response. A disorder wouldn't matter. Only thing it would matter is I had someone attacking me and they were much bigger than me so I fought back. I am unlikely to kill them of course because I wouldn't be strong enough but my husband probably would of he saw anyone hurting our children or me. He would also be in fight or flight response as well while defending and then he would plead insanity if the attacker was mentally ill or severely autistic or intellectually impaired. But I would be sure the killing would be unintentional on my husband's part. It would just be a tragic thing and not a crime IMO. It would be a time to feel sad for both parties and see it as an accident and sad.


Fight or Flight is a normal reaction but the school staff are bieng paid not to give in to that reaction and use best practices to diffuse this type of situation which is not uncommon in a special needs school.


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EzraS
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27 Dec 2016, 12:34 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Or another speculation, when the teachers butted in to break up the fight, the autistic student started to attack the staff so they fought back in self defense and he died that way.


I don't think it was a fight. What I read was, "When another student tried to step in to help, he ended up getting hurt." I think that means the student in distress was probably flailing his arms around and the student trying to help probably accidentally got hit in the face or got poked in the eye or something.


ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fight or Flight is a normal reaction but the school staff are being paid not to give in to that reaction and use best practices to diffuse this type of situation which is not uncommon in a special needs school.


No it's not at all uncommon. I have watched it happen many times.



androbot01
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27 Dec 2016, 12:50 pm

EzraS wrote:
I don't think it was a fight.


Quote:
CBS2’s Jeff Nguyen reported the teen — who had autism — died following a fight on the bus early Friday evening on his way home from school.

Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

At one point, police say the teen passed out.
CBS



League_Girl
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27 Dec 2016, 2:14 pm

EzraS wrote:
League_Girl wrote:

Or another speculation, when the teachers butted in to break up the fight, the autistic student started to attack the staff so they fought back in self defense and he died that way.


I don't think it was a fight. What I read was, "When another student tried to step in to help, he ended up getting hurt." I think that means the student in distress was probably flailing his arms around and the student trying to help probably accidentally got hit in the face or got poked in the eye or something.


ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fight or Flight is a normal reaction but the school staff are being paid not to give in to that reaction and use best practices to diffuse this type of situation which is not uncommon in a special needs school.


No it's not at all uncommon. I have watched it happen many times.




Of all times I have been in special ed especially when I attended a special preschool for kids with developmental delays and being in a self contained class, there was only one kid who was violent but he wasn't dangerous and he never had to be retrained. He was only taken to the office and sent out of the classroom when he got that bad. He only threw chairs one time and that was it while rest of the time he hit or pinched but it wasn't on a daily basis. The other things he only did was name called and got other kids into trouble with his lies and me. I must have been very lucky. Other special needs kids I have seen over the years, none of them were violent except for one kid I knew in my teens but he had a behavior disorder and had been in and out of the hospital from Seattle and got kicked out of his regular school. Plus that other boy I knew when I was six I just wrote about here.


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28 Dec 2016, 8:09 am

Ezra's in a different school situation than most kids who are in "special classes." He is in a school which specializes exclusively in (probably mostly) moderate-to-severe autistic kids. All the kids there are classified as those who have "significant special needs."

His experience will probably be somewhat different from those in more generalized "special classes."



Davvo7
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28 Dec 2016, 10:42 am

Any authority figure, of any kind, who places another vulnerable person - especially one who is in a heightened state of agitation - in restraints is then fully responsible for the safety of that person until such time as they are removed and the person is in a place of safety. They have an absolute duty of care to protect that person irrespective of the detained person's actions - There is no leeway in this, legally they are responsible. If a lay-person deprives the liberty and freedom of a person they they have a legal responsibility to know what they are doing and how to do it safely and properly in any eventuality.

Laying a person down whilst their hands are restrained, a very very common practice, puts a great deal of extra pressure on the chest area and makes it difficult to breathe; the shallow breaths do not bring in enough oxygen and this in turn can add to the fear and anxiety and the person can die very quickly. Their rights to detain him are more than matched by their responsibility to protect him. The young person's actions are irrelevant to this, the bottom line was they asserted their authority, placed him in a potentially dangerous situation, failed in their duty and obligation to protect him and should face charges accordingly.

I'm quite sure they won't, we already know that autistic lives aren't worth as much as 'normal' lives so I'm quite sure the adults will walk away with sympathies ringing in their ears, "Well if he hadn't have fought like that he wouldn't be dead! You must feel awful, so sorry for you!" Whilst totally ignoring the reason he died was because he was failed by the adults, carers, supporters or whatever they want to call themselves when he needed them most.

There is no need to restrain autistic people, not any more, proper use of positive behaviour support approaches render that approach outdated and barbaric.



EzraS
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28 Dec 2016, 12:04 pm

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't think it was a fight.


Quote:
CBS2’s Jeff Nguyen reported the teen — who had autism — died following a fight on the bus early Friday evening on his way home from school.

Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

At one point, police say the teen passed out.
CBS


That seems to conflict with:

Quote:
Police said Corona was prone to outbursts, and when another student tried to step in to help, he ended up getting hurt.

That is when the bus driver and two aides worked to restrain Corona.

"While they were trying to calm this student and get the situation under control apparently he went limp," Madden said.


http://abc7.com/news/student-with-autis ... o/1653018/



androbot01
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28 Dec 2016, 12:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't think it was a fight.


Quote:
CBS2’s Jeff Nguyen reported the teen — who had autism — died following a fight on the bus early Friday evening on his way home from school.

Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

At one point, police say the teen passed out.
CBS


That seems to conflict with:

Quote:
Police said Corona was prone to outbursts, and when another student tried to step in to help, he ended up getting hurt.

That is when the bus driver and two aides worked to restrain Corona.

"While they were trying to calm this student and get the situation under control apparently he went limp," Madden said.


http://abc7.com/news/student-with-autis ... o/1653018/

In what way?



EzraS
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29 Dec 2016, 2:52 am

androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I don't think it was a fight.


Quote:
CBS2’s Jeff Nguyen reported the teen — who had autism — died following a fight on the bus early Friday evening on his way home from school.

Investigators believe Corona got into with another student and school workers who had to restrain him with the help of the bus driver.

At one point, police say the teen passed out.
CBS


That seems to conflict with:

Quote:
Police said Corona was prone to outbursts, and when another student tried to step in to help, he ended up getting hurt.

That is when the bus driver and two aides worked to restrain Corona.

"While they were trying to calm this student and get the situation under control apparently he went limp," Madden said.


http://abc7.com/news/student-with-autis ... o/1653018/

In what way?


That way :P



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15 Jan 2017, 4:24 am

Why did autistic San Bernardino student die in school bus struggle?

Quote:
“I don’t believe there was any intent to cause harm to this young man,” Madden said. “We also have to look at whether there was negligence.”

Police are waiting for toxicology test results, and Madden said he didn’t know when the investigation would be completed.

An autopsy is pending, said Gabriel Morales, supervising deputy coroner investigator for the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department Coroner Division.


Quote:
Madden said Corona had “chronic conditions” that made him “prone to outbursts.”

Corona, who was restrained by a harness, became agitated and aggressive and tried to “lash out” at a female student as the bus drove north on the 215 Freeway in San Bernardino, Madden said.

A female employee tried to restrain Corona to keep him from harming himself or anyone else but couldn’t, the lieutenant said. Then, the male bus driver got off the freeway, stopped the vehicle and helped, Madden said.

An earlier statement from the school said that two special education aides and the bus driver, who are trained in “de-escalation techniques,” tried to calm Corona.

Madden said the struggle lasted several minutes and at some point, Corona “went limp” and stopped resisting.

“When they realized what had happened, they removed him from the harness and saw he wasn’t breathing,” Madden said.

School employees performed CPR and called 911. An emergency medical crew arrived to the area of H and Victoria streets and took Corona to a hospital, where he died, a San Bernardino police news release stated.


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EzraS
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15 Jan 2017, 7:31 am

If he was in a harness then they would not have had to wrestle with him too much. He had severe autism and severe intellectual disability like I figured. I still seriously doubt it was anything anyone did that caused the death. Probably something like a brain aneurysm.