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Donald Trump is not a Bigot or Racist..

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adifferentname
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10 Jan 2017, 4:58 am

Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.



Shahunshah
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10 Jan 2017, 3:11 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.
Why?

Your forgetting the fact that women were assigned to a lesser plain of existence on the basis of gender that is sexism.



Tollorin
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10 Jan 2017, 6:20 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.

What are you talking about? There were very few women in university one century ago, far less that men; women were discouraged from pursuing instruction and professions and those who did had to go through many barriers. This is history, not something invented by feminist study or whatever. I guess that now the alt-right is taking control of political powers history is rewritten; denying of historical sexism and racism, and I guess that soon slavery will be said to not "have been that bad".


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Alliekit
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10 Jan 2017, 6:51 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.


Maybe you should because what was described was the history. Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.



Mikah
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10 Jan 2017, 7:16 pm

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Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.


This was largely rhetoric and after-the-fact justification. Women got the vote for the same reason any group gets suffrage, a group of cynical activist-turned-politicians thought it would help their cause and swing elections in their favour.


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Alliekit
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10 Jan 2017, 7:18 pm

Mikah wrote:
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Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.


This was largely rhetoric and after-the-fact justification. Women got the vote for the same reason any group gets suffrage, a group of cynical activist-turned-politicians thought it would help their cause and swing elections in their favour.


If the women couldn't vote then why would you pander to them?



Mikah
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10 Jan 2017, 7:30 pm

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If the women couldn't vote then why would you pander to them?


I don't quite follow. You get your ringers the vote first, then you pander to them, or rely on their natural inclinations.


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Alliekit
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10 Jan 2017, 7:38 pm

Mikah wrote:
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If the women couldn't vote then why would you pander to them?


I don't quite follow. You get your ringers the vote first, then you pander to them, or rely on their natural inclinations.


I meant that at the time the attitude towards women was one of their opinion shouldnt affect the government. During the war when most men were away women took up more jobs and started to fight for the right to vote. And I suppose in a way you are correct that allowing them to vote would swing them toward your party. However this may not have occurred so quickly if not for the consequences of the war.



RetroGamer87
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10 Jan 2017, 9:33 pm

Alliekit wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.


Maybe you should because what was described was the history. Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.


Maybe in your country. Here in South Australia women got the vote in 1895, well before World War I (South Australian women also gained the right to stand for parliament in 1895).


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adifferentname
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10 Jan 2017, 11:04 pm

Tollorin wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.

What are you talking about? There were very few women in university one century ago, far less that men; women were discouraged from pursuing instruction and professions and those who did had to go through many barriers.


Interesting that you've decided that it's the women in universities part I was commenting on. Also interesting that you missed the point of why I selectively quoted myself prior to the response.

FYI England had only two universities at the start of Victoria's reign, access to which was controlled by the Church of England.

Quote:
This is history, not something invented by feminist study or whatever.


This is history sans nuance. History through an ideological lens. Its goal is justification of BS today by wearing a coat sewn together from the supposed outrages of yesteryear. Reintroduce the nuance and context and you appreciate how progressive the Victorians were, despite their ideals of what we consider "traditional domestic values".

Rather than bemoaning how few women got to vote or go to university, we should express gratitude to those who built the foundations of universal suffrage for men and women alike, who gave women the right to vote and built additional universities (some of which accepted women applicants), schools, hospitals, etc and services for the lower classes who had previously been ignored.

Quote:
I guess that now the alt-right is taking control of political powers history is rewritten; denying of historical sexism and racism, and I guess that soon slavery will be said to not "have been that bad".


Have you considered applying for a job with Infowars?



feral botanist
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10 Jan 2017, 11:11 pm

adifferentname

I want to apologize. I did not realize how much it would hurt you when I called you a "mental contortionist".

It was very helpful when the moderator contacted me about the incident. I need the feed back from others to better understand appropriate behavior.

I plan on being observant of others to see how best to navigate this delicate balance of conflicting ideas.



adifferentname
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11 Jan 2017, 1:32 am

feral botanist wrote:
adifferentname

I want to apologize. I did not realize how much it would hurt you when I called you a "mental contortionist".


Hurt me? It wasn't conducive to productive discourse, but I have zero regard for insults or personal attacks made over the internet by strangers.

Put simply, you don't know me well enough to effectively insult me.

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It was very helpful when the moderator contacted me about the incident. I need the feed back from others to better understand appropriate behavior.


Much as I appreciate the mods doing what they do, you may be assured that, in this instance, it was entirely without my knowledge.

Quote:
I plan on being observant of others to see how best to navigate this delicate balance of conflicting ideas.


I suggest you learn to appreciate the value in having your own ideas scrutinised and challenged, and to learn the difference between your inference and another's implication. There's a great deal of projecting and reading between the lines on this board, from people I am certain find the same behaviour abhorrent when practised by others.



Alliekit
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11 Jan 2017, 6:36 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.


Maybe you should because what was described was the history. Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.


Maybe in your country. Here in South Australia women got the vote in 1895, well before World War I (South Australian women also gained the right to stand for parliament in 1895).


yes I was talking about in england. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Australia was ahead of the curve in that respect



Alliekit
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11 Jan 2017, 6:43 am

adifferentname wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.

What are you talking about? There were very few women in university one century ago, far less that men; women were discouraged from pursuing instruction and professions and those who did had to go through many barriers.


Interesting that you've decided that it's the women in universities part I was commenting on. Also interesting that you missed the point of why I selectively quoted myself prior to the response.

FYI England had only two universities at the start of Victoria's reign, access to which was controlled by the Church of England.

Quote:
This is history, not something invented by feminist study or whatever.


This is history sans nuance. History through an ideological lens. Its goal is justification of BS today by wearing a coat sewn together from the supposed outrages of yesteryear. Reintroduce the nuance and context and you appreciate how progressive the Victorians were, despite their ideals of what we consider "traditional domestic values".

Rather than bemoaning how few women got to vote or go to university, we should express gratitude to those who built the foundations of universal suffrage for men and women alike, who gave women the right to vote and built additional universities (some of which accepted women applicants), schools, hospitals, etc and services for the lower classes who had previously been ignored.

Quote:
I guess that now the alt-right is taking control of political powers history is rewritten; denying of historical sexism and racism, and I guess that soon slavery will be said to not "have been that bad".


Have you considered applying for a job with Infowars?


It was a shame it took until 1918 for women to be able to vote in parliament and finnally have equal rights to men.

While the victorian era may have been progressive women were still placed in certain 'traditional roles' that made it so that academic work was frowned upon as well as interferring with politics to a degree



RetroGamer87
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11 Jan 2017, 6:53 am

Alliekit wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Alliekit wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
The claim of female oppression in Victorian Britain is disingenuous, revisionist and completely absent any understanding of the historical progression from serfdom to emancipation of all members the lower classes.

To look at human history absent the understanding of our roots as a sexually dimorphic social mammal is equally flawed.

Hardly any women in Universities. All property was in the hand of husbands whom could largely freely abuse and rape their wives. Where is equality in that. What's more or less it wasn't those at the top being the oppressors it was the working class in many ways.


Perfect example of why you should study history rather than feminism.


Maybe you should because what was described was the history. Lets not forget women only got to vote because of their contribution to the war effort.


Maybe in your country. Here in South Australia women got the vote in 1895, well before World War I (South Australian women also gained the right to stand for parliament in 1895).


yes I was talking about in england. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Australia was ahead of the curve in that respect


No worries. If it's any consolation you beat the USA by two years.


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naturalplastic
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11 Jan 2017, 6:58 am

.....he just plays one on TV!