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Ecomatt91
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12 Jan 2017, 9:56 pm

While raising awareness for Autism I find it so difficult to gain knowledge from non-Autistic person's perspective. I am talking about empathy and understanding. I am having a lot of trouble blending myself with people making friends and develop relationships its because I am living in different perspective compared to others.

Please don't tell me I am being wrong, nor you are also being wrong. The mainstream society dictates that Autistic people lacks of empathy and being dishonest. I want to say this officially, this is NOT true. It because the social attitudes towards someone is being different you are likely miss out core information that lead you making assumptions of who we are.

I am nearly 26 years old and I am yet to find a close circle of friends, and yet find a relationship that I always desire and romantise for. I am totally upset the way I have been treated by the society who are being fixated and putting a title on me as being Autistic which refer 'not a normal human being and unable to work normally'.

This reminds me about the issues of women's rights about 100 years ago where women judged like us Autistic people today. Women were mistreated by their gender as a role of 'housewife', 'maid' and 'slave'. Today, it is a same for people with disabilities especially people with Aspergers. We are being mistreated and judged by having friendships, relationships and employment.

Its so disappointing the world is continually to fixate on certain things and make assumptions on people being 'different'. I am trying so hard to achieve the successes of my life. I can show that Autistic people can have a normal lifestyle just like everybody else. I can be a leader, a prime minister, a board member, a husband, a full time worker with salary packaging, can own a home and so on.



tick
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12 Jan 2017, 10:20 pm

I've been shocked by attitudes people have, too. I have been scolded, laughed at, and of course gotten the pity look just because they knew my diagnosis. I was even told in the snottiest manner possible that I shouldn't be my sister's caregiver while she was getting cancer treatment. All because of the diagnosis.



Ecomatt91
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13 Jan 2017, 5:50 pm

Yes, they spend so much time ignoring Aspies like me and focused on 'normal or mainstream' social activities that belong to their normal minds. That is discriminating and bigotry.



The Unleasher
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13 Jan 2017, 10:04 pm

It may be because I'm young, but I haven't gotten treated differently for having autism. I'm not "out of the neurological closet" yet, so that's another factor. Only my mother, brother, father, and a few higher up officials know of my diagnosis. I've been treated differently for being antisocial and "too serious", which is mostly due to my autism.


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bowtruckle
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13 Jan 2017, 10:52 pm

Yes, I feel with you. I try to explain to people that I misunderstood them because I see things differently than them, but then sometimes they'll accuse me of being selfish and making everything about me. Also it's so alienating how awareness is raising for all sorts of mental illness and neurodivergencies like anxiety, depression and ADHD but no one seems aware of the autism spectrum or to care about us.



Ecomatt91
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14 Jan 2017, 5:27 am

Thanks for empathies from everyone. I can see how the mainstream media create a stance on NT society they create assumptions and presumptions on someone being different.

Like how women go through fighting their rights for suffrage and gender roles in early 20th century. Today it all about disabilities and mental health. Stigma is quite huge on that. That why people stepping up and speaking out.



Shahunshah
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14 Jan 2017, 6:17 am

bowtruckle wrote:
Yes, I feel with you. I try to explain to people that I misunderstood them because I see things differently than them, but then sometimes they'll accuse me of being selfish and making everything about me. Also it's so alienating how awareness is raising for all sorts of mental illness and neurodivergencies like anxiety, depression and ADHD but no one seems aware of the autism spectrum or to care about us.
Well that's not necessarily the case. I mean the first disease specific bill in a long time in the United States was done to combat autism. You can't say that autism is being avoided when that can be shown not to be the case.



Goth Fairy
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14 Jan 2017, 6:26 am

I really like your comparison with the struggle for women's rights. Because were seen as somehow slightly less human, it didn't matter that they were stuck in a role because that's what they were for, like a pet dog, and no they shouldn't have the vote because they didn't have the mental capacity to think about such important things. People do not understand us yet, but I think that in time this will change, just as it changed for women. The internet does provide a lot more opportunities for Aspies in terms of networking, working from home, finding out about special interests or self-educating from home.

Apparently I am the eternal optimist though. I still like meeting new people, even though it often doesn't work out, there are still some good people out there and sometimes it does.


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citoyenlambda
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15 Jan 2017, 11:21 pm

I really have no patience for the "normal" world. I have tried for a decade to fit in by any means necessary and it took me a long time to accept that there really is nothing I could do. NTs are supremely good at picking up anything that marks a person as an outsider. You can try to modulate your tone of voice, refrain from sharing the minutia you feel is really important, try to smile and laugh and try to read and produce body language and a lot more stuff, but you'll always look off to them. I suppose it's some leftover primal mechanic. Or I guess I could just suck that much at NT-101.

I used to be really resentful of the way I was treated by them but as I've written a few times on this website, I realized they can't help it. We are Others and in this way I think our situation has nothing to do with women's rights. Women's lib was about shifting the perception of women from something to be admired and protected - often against themselves - to agents of their own destinies. Their place in society was always well-established, it's just that they wanted another. As Others, we have no place in society. Those of us who can contribute to NT society may be tolerated and viewed as honorary humans, but those of us who can't hold jobs and have trouble functioning without accommodations are scorned. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on us to demonstrate that we are, indeed, honorary humans, and even that status may be revoked if you fail to conform to what is expected of you.

One verse of the New Testament I try to live by is Luke 23:34, the part where Jesus asks God to forgive the Romans who crucified him for they knew not what they were doing, as they were gambling for his clothes. I try to assume that what is done to me is done by ignorance rather than malice. In fact, I am absolutely convinced that they do not know what the f**k they are doing. The difficult part is trying not to be mad about it.

I simply don't know why an ASD commune sort of thing doesn't seem to exist. The only thing I want out of life is a place far away from these people. They may not know what they do but that doesn't mean I have to endure their ignorance. Even on the Internet, a lot of support communities like this one have a few token NTs that I wish would just not be there.


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BuyerBeware
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15 Jan 2017, 11:56 pm

citoyenlambda wrote:
I really have no patience for the "normal" world. I have tried for a decade to fit in by any means necessary and it took me a long time to accept that there really is nothing I could do. NTs are supremely good at picking up anything that marks a person as an outsider. You can try to modulate your tone of voice, refrain from sharing the minutia you feel is really important, try to smile and laugh and try to read and produce body language and a lot more stuff, but you'll always look off to them. I suppose it's some leftover primal mechanic. Or I guess I could just suck that much at NT-101.

I used to be really resentful of the way I was treated by them but as I've written a few times on this website, I realized they can't help it. We are Others and in this way I think our situation has nothing to do with women's rights. Women's lib was about shifting the perception of women from something to be admired and protected - often against themselves - to agents of their own destinies. Their place in society was always well-established, it's just that they wanted another. As Others, we have no place in society. Those of us who can contribute to NT society may be tolerated and viewed as honorary humans, but those of us who can't hold jobs and have trouble functioning without accommodations are scorned. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on us to demonstrate that we are, indeed, honorary humans, and even that status may be revoked if you fail to conform to what is expected of you.

One verse of the New Testament I try to live by is Luke 23:34, the part where Jesus asks God to forgive the Romans who crucified him for they knew not what they were doing, as they were gambling for his clothes. I try to assume that what is done to me is done by ignorance rather than malice. In fact, I am absolutely convinced that they do not know what the f**k they are doing. The difficult part is trying not to be mad about it.

I simply don't know why an ASD commune sort of thing doesn't seem to exist. The only thing I want out of life is a place far away from these people. They may not know what they do but that doesn't mean I have to endure their ignorance. Even on the Internet, a lot of support communities like this one have a few token NTs that I wish would just not be there.


Pretty much, this. There is no point in demanding acceptance, or equal rights, or even an end to the lies that we're uncaring and all the next mass shooter. We are Other; this is our lot. They can't do any better. God marked us and set us apart; it's up to us to learn to accept that with grace and dignity (no matter their efforts to strip us of mere humanity, never mind dignity or self-respect).


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ASPartOfMe
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16 Jan 2017, 3:54 am

BuyerBeware wrote:
citoyenlambda wrote:
I really have no patience for the "normal" world. I have tried for a decade to fit in by any means necessary and it took me a long time to accept that there really is nothing I could do. NTs are supremely good at picking up anything that marks a person as an outsider. You can try to modulate your tone of voice, refrain from sharing the minutia you feel is really important, try to smile and laugh and try to read and produce body language and a lot more stuff, but you'll always look off to them. I suppose it's some leftover primal mechanic. Or I guess I could just suck that much at NT-101.

I used to be really resentful of the way I was treated by them but as I've written a few times on this website, I realized they can't help it. We are Others and in this way I think our situation has nothing to do with women's rights. Women's lib was about shifting the perception of women from something to be admired and protected - often against themselves - to agents of their own destinies. Their place in society was always well-established, it's just that they wanted another. As Others, we have no place in society. Those of us who can contribute to NT society may be tolerated and viewed as honorary humans, but those of us who can't hold jobs and have trouble functioning without accommodations are scorned. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on us to demonstrate that we are, indeed, honorary humans, and even that status may be revoked if you fail to conform to what is expected of you.

One verse of the New Testament I try to live by is Luke 23:34, the part where Jesus asks God to forgive the Romans who crucified him for they knew not what they were doing, as they were gambling for his clothes. I try to assume that what is done to me is done by ignorance rather than malice. In fact, I am absolutely convinced that they do not know what the f**k they are doing. The difficult part is trying not to be mad about it.

I simply don't know why an ASD commune sort of thing doesn't seem to exist. The only thing I want out of life is a place far away from these people. They may not know what they do but that doesn't mean I have to endure their ignorance. Even on the Internet, a lot of support communities like this one have a few token NTs that I wish would just not be there.


Pretty much, this. There is no point in demanding acceptance, or equal rights, or even an end to the lies that we're uncaring and all the next mass shooter. We are Other; this is our lot. They can't do any better. God marked us and set us apart; it's up to us to learn to accept that with grace and dignity (no matter their efforts to strip us of mere humanity, never mind dignity or self-respect).


At one time gays were thought to be not the next child molester and converter to "perversion" but very much current ones. While they are still despised in many quarters major progress in attitudes towards them is undeniable. What they fought for and won is not a guarentee anything like that will happen for us no matter what we do. Giving up is a guarentee it will stay the same or get worse.


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16 Jan 2017, 9:47 am

I know the feeling, this is kinda why I have a generalized detest for most people.



SocOfAutism
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16 Jan 2017, 9:54 am

I spent a lot of time reading about the empathy thing. Okay so what happened was Simon Baron-Cohen did some studies that showed that his autistic subjects had a lower score on the empathy test he gave them as compared to NT subjects and...I think he also tested people with Down's but I could be wrong about that.

BUT...it turned out that he did not factor in language defects. Subsequent tests by different people showed that any people with a language defect do poorly on those empathy tests. Anyone with a high language score also gets a high empathy test score. So that is BS.

It has also been suggested that autistic people may in fact have some difficulty showing empathy for non-autistic people not because of an inherent defect, but because they are a minority population, currently being suppressed by neurotypical culture. I like to compare this to whiteness. It's often hard for a white person to imagine being white- that's why there's a lot of discussion about it these days with the "white privilege" and whatnot. The reason for that is because there are SO MANY white people in Western civilization that it has become the "normal" state. A black person can define themselves by race easier because they have whiteness to contrast against. The black people they know may things in common, which helps to define "blackness". White people mostly just see themselves, so they often don't even think about it, making it a difficult to define state. Plus, there are too many of them, making it hard to see what they have in common. BTW I'm purposefully ignoring other races for simplicity.

Okay so some autistic people may find it just as puzzling to imagine being a non-autistic person. Non-autistic people are so common, with so little (neurologically) to define themselves against, that it is hard to describe, even if you ARE neurotypical. A neurotypical person who doesn't know autistic people might describe themselves as "normal" or "regular", which of course is not helpful. They may not be able to describe themselves at all. They may not understand the question. It is hard to imagine that you are such a person.

You can certainly feel sympathy for other people if you can't feel empathy. That usually serves the same purpose. And of course, some autistics report feeling more than the usual amount of empathy for others, which can be close to socially disabling.

Sorry for the long post. Obviously I find this very interesting.



FreakyZettairyouiki
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16 Jan 2017, 12:14 pm

What I hate is that people also make jokes about autism. Like if they're in an awkward gap in a conversation, they'll be like "Sorry. I don't mean to be autistic." I heard one person say this online and they replied "Well isn't it true that autistics are incapable of empathy." My roommate even thinks that I'm antisocial and she doesn't even know about my diagnosis. I would love to have relationships with people. I just don't know how. And my issue isn't having empathy but just expressing it the right way. People are so ignorant about ASD that they just class us all as sociopaths and that's why no one outside of immediate family (excluding my siblings) know I have Asperger's because I know once they find out, they will treat me even more differently than they do now.


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16 Jan 2017, 12:38 pm

I have always been treated differently. You don't need to have the diagnoses to have people treat you any different. They just know you are different and not like anyone else rather they know it or not. Now as an adult my life is easier because people leave me alone now so it's like I am invisible now and I don't try to fit in anymore. Then of course if you tell them about your diagnoses, you might be treated like a lost puppy so it goes from negative to too positive but then it feels all condescending like they are only being nice to you and stuff because they pity you and are going easy on you and they have way low expectations of you.


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16 Jan 2017, 6:40 pm

I was on one of my module forums discussing our upcoming field trips about a month ago when quite randomly the conversation turned, and I ended up telling the other students I'd been recently diagnosed with ASD. Somehow I destroyed the thread of comments with that admittance (everything 'went quiet'), and then got the following: 'what's ASD?' If we'd all been in a room together I was already out of the door, so to speak, realising I'd said too much. I may be over-cautious in this way, but I suddenly felt I did not want to spend the rest of my days explaining the particulars of being neurodiverse to everyone, even if I do something perceived as strange. Not because I don't think I could handle criticism, already felt the sting of that, but because over time it must be exhausting.
Even if the autism stigma has noticeably lessened in many parts of the world, my own individual perception of the people around me is that if it doesn't affect them, they will be ignorant, and I don't want to be a dictionary.


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