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naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2017, 11:28 am

EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.


No.

As a matter of fact everyone in the entire Western World over two years old is familiar with the phrase "wise old owl". Surely you too must have heard the expression.

Both birds are extremely WELL KNOWN symbols.


I never associated owls with America the way I do bald eagles. I don't recall an owl being used the way a bald eagle is used to symbolize America. When I see an owl I think of all sorts of things, when I see a bald eagle, I think Murica. But maybe that's just me.

Darmok wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.

No.

As a matter of fact everyone in the entire Western World over two years old is familiar with the phrase "wise old owl". Surely you too must have heard the expression.

Both birds are extremely WELL KNOWN symbols.

Probably the most famous coin in history:

Image

https://www.google.com/search?q=owl+of+ ... 68#imgrc=_


And what American coinage has an owl on it? And what other coinage other than American has a bald eagle on it?

None of us has a clue as to wtf youre talking about.


Oh really? Part of a collective mind are you?

naturalplastic wrote:
Nobody said the owl was used as a patriotic symbol for America, or for any place else(except maybe for the ancient city state of Athens).

The Brits have a mammal (the lion), and the non bald martial eagle symbolizes Germany, Austria, and a bunch of other old world countries ( Albania, and Russia, use two headed martial eagles). And we have the bald eagle.

But in each and every one of the above countries the owl is used as symbol of wisdom. But no modern country I know of uses the owl as a national symbol.


What happened is I said "So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol". What should have added at the end was, the owl is the lesser known AMERICAN bird symbol. Since I didn't specify AMERICA, it was assumed I meant the owl was a lesser known bird symbol throughout the entire world and all of history. Does that explain it better or are you still stuck in wtf mode?


This is worse than blind man's bluff!

:lol:


Lets just take it from the top. Start the conversation over again.

Okay: this is what you meant to ask: "Is the owl THE lesser known American bird symbol then the Bald Eagle?".

That is STILL an ambiguously worded question. By "American bird symbol" do you mean "is the bird American?" , or do you mean "is the symbol American?". Lions are not native to England. But lions are used as a symbol by Brits for their country of Britain..

And if the latter ...that the symbol is American (and not that the bird is necessarily American) then what do you mean by "American symbol"?

Are you asking "is the owl used as a symbol FOR America?" Or are you asking "is the owl used IN America as a symbol for something else?" :lol: Could mean either thing.

And your curve balls didnt end there.

But to sum it up:

On one hand:

The bald eagle IS used in America, by Americans (and by everyone else on the planet) as a symbol for America, and the Founding Father choose it as a symbol partially because the bald eagle IS also native to -and is- largely peculiar to-North America.

That much you apparently understand, and we are both on the same page about it.

In contrast:

the owl IS used in America as a symbol, but NOT as a symbol FOR America (its not and never was a patriotic symbol). Owls are found in the USA, but they are not peculiar to the USA. And though Americans USE the owl as a symbol (for education and wisdom and all that), that cultural symbolism is also NOT pecular to the USA. Its is largely universal to the whole Western World. Neither the bird, nor the symbolic use of the bird in America are distinctively American.

Are we still on the same page?

Finally...about it being "lesser known":

Every grade school kid in Europe, and in the American continents, as heard the phrase "the wise old owl". So obviously the use of the owl as a symbol for wisdom is not "lesser known" than anything. Its about as well known a meme as it gets. So the owl symbolism is at least as "well known", if not more well known, than the symbolism of the bald eagle to stand for a particular nation.

Are we still on the same page?

So in conclusion: if you were asking about whether owls and bald eagle jockey for rank to stand for the same thing- the answer is NO! The two birds represent two very different and non competing and noncomparable things despite the fact that both symbolic uses of both birds are "well known".

Comprende?



EzraS
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02 Feb 2017, 11:32 am

Some say this little doodle on the one dollar bill is supposed to be an owl. Others say it's supposed to be a spider.

Image



naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2017, 2:01 pm

Maybe.

Except on close inspection what it really looks like is just a continuation of the cross hatching pattern on the bill. The opposite corner of the design has that leaf in the equivalent place covering up the spot were the "owl" would be formed by the cross hatching.



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02 Feb 2017, 2:25 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Fun owl facts.
http://www.owlpages.com/owls/articles.php?a=62
There used to be a Barred Owl that hung around the house for years,it got really tame and we could walk right up to where it was perched.It was around for about ten years,but vanished.Maybe a victim of old age.I miss seeing the owl.


There's some thought that the Jersey Devil sightings might have been misidentified owls in the half-dark.


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naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2017, 5:22 pm

You might have heard of the "Moth Man".

A human sized and shaped creature with a flat face and horns on its head - and a five or six foot wingspan, that would appear in the night terrorizing whole communities in western Pennsylvania. The phenomenon inspired the major motion picture "The Moth Man Prophecies" starring Richard Gere. The hysteria traced back to the first sighting by a pair of teens necking in a car parked in the night next to the ruins of abandoned munitions factory outside of some small Pennsylvania town. Their description of "Moth Man" is virtually identical to that of a great horned owl ( theyre big birds with big almost eagle sized wingspans). And great horned owls love to perch in abandoned buildings.



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02 Feb 2017, 5:32 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
You might have heard of the "Moth Man".

A human sized and shaped creature with a flat face and horns on its head - and a five or six foot wingspan, that would appear in the night terrorizing whole communities in western Pennsylvania. It inspired the major motion picture "The Moth Man Prophecies" starring Richard Gere. The hysteria traced back to the first sighting by a pair of teens necking in a car parked in the night next to the ruins of abandoned munitions factory outside of some small Pennsylvania town. Their description of "Moth Man" is virtually identical to that of a great horned owl ( theyre big birds with big almost eagle sized wingspans). And great horned owls love to perch in abandoned buildings.


Yes, I've heard that theory before. There's also a theory stating that Mothman was a misidentified Canadian goose, with red coloring on either side of it's breast, which might have been mistaken for eyes in the half-light.


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02 Feb 2017, 8:43 pm

But how could a great horned owl or a goose make phone calls to Richard Gere?



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02 Feb 2017, 9:01 pm

They're very resourceful; they'll find a way.



EzraS
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02 Feb 2017, 9:05 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.


No.

As a matter of fact everyone in the entire Western World over two years old is familiar with the phrase "wise old owl". Surely you too must have heard the expression.

Both birds are extremely WELL KNOWN symbols.


I never associated owls with America the way I do bald eagles. I don't recall an owl being used the way a bald eagle is used to symbolize America. When I see an owl I think of all sorts of things, when I see a bald eagle, I think Murica. But maybe that's just me.

Darmok wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.

No.

As a matter of fact everyone in the entire Western World over two years old is familiar with the phrase "wise old owl". Surely you too must have heard the expression.

Both birds are extremely WELL KNOWN symbols.

Probably the most famous coin in history:

Image

https://www.google.com/search?q=owl+of+ ... 68#imgrc=_


And what American coinage has an owl on it? And what other coinage other than American has a bald eagle on it?

None of us has a clue as to wtf youre talking about.


Oh really? Part of a collective mind are you?

naturalplastic wrote:
Nobody said the owl was used as a patriotic symbol for America, or for any place else(except maybe for the ancient city state of Athens).

The Brits have a mammal (the lion), and the non bald martial eagle symbolizes Germany, Austria, and a bunch of other old world countries ( Albania, and Russia, use two headed martial eagles). And we have the bald eagle.

But in each and every one of the above countries the owl is used as symbol of wisdom. But no modern country I know of uses the owl as a national symbol.


What happened is I said "So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol". What should have added at the end was, the owl is the lesser known AMERICAN bird symbol. Since I didn't specify AMERICA, it was assumed I meant the owl was a lesser known bird symbol throughout the entire world and all of history. Does that explain it better or are you still stuck in wtf mode?


This is worse than blind man's bluff!

:lol:


Lets just take it from the top. Start the conversation over again.

Okay: this is what you meant to ask: "Is the owl THE lesser known American bird symbol then the Bald Eagle?".

That is STILL an ambiguously worded question. By "American bird symbol" do you mean "is the bird American?" , or do you mean "is the symbol American?". Lions are not native to England. But lions are used as a symbol by Brits for their country of Britain..

And if the latter ...that the symbol is American (and not that the bird is necessarily American) then what do you mean by "American symbol"?

Are you asking "is the owl used as a symbol FOR America?" Or are you asking "is the owl used IN America as a symbol for something else?" :lol: Could mean either thing.

And your curve balls didnt end there.

But to sum it up:

On one hand:

The bald eagle IS used in America, by Americans (and by everyone else on the planet) as a symbol for America, and the Founding Father choose it as a symbol partially because the bald eagle IS also native to -and is- largely peculiar to-North America.

That much you apparently understand, and we are both on the same page about it.

In contrast:

the owl IS used in America as a symbol, but NOT as a symbol FOR America (its not and never was a patriotic symbol). Owls are found in the USA, but they are not peculiar to the USA. And though Americans USE the owl as a symbol (for education and wisdom and all that), that cultural symbolism is also NOT pecular to the USA. Its is largely universal to the whole Western World. Neither the bird, nor the symbolic use of the bird in America are distinctively American.

Are we still on the same page?

Finally...about it being "lesser known":

Every grade school kid in Europe, and in the American continents, as heard the phrase "the wise old owl". So obviously the use of the owl as a symbol for wisdom is not "lesser known" than anything. Its about as well known a meme as it gets. So the owl symbolism is at least as "well known", if not more well known, than the symbolism of the bald eagle to stand for a particular nation.

Are we still on the same page?

So in conclusion: if you were asking about whether owls and bald eagle jockey for rank to stand for the same thing- the answer is NO! The two birds represent two very different and non competing and noncomparable things despite the fact that both symbolic uses of both birds are "well known".

Comprende?


I said, "So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol [of America]". That was not a question, but rather a simple offhand statement of personal perception.



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02 Feb 2017, 9:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
They're very resourceful; they'll find a way.


The other day I could have sworn I saw a seagull with a smart phone.



naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2017, 9:55 pm

EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.




Darmok wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:

I said, "So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol [of America]". That was not a question, but rather a simple offhand statement of personal perception.


Why did you expend verbiage to write this?

Whether it was an observation, or whether it was question, either way, it makes no difference to how another person would respond to your statement.

Your statement showed a total lack of understanding because its factually wrong on two counts demanding correction of you by others on both of those two counts. Those two counts being (1)you thought that we were saying that the owl is a "bird symbol of America" which it is not (and no one said it was), and (b) that the owl as a symbol is lesser known than the bald eagle is as a symbol (when in fact the owl is at least as well known).



Last edited by naturalplastic on 02 Feb 2017, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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02 Feb 2017, 10:00 pm

Ever see "The Owl and the Pussycat?"



naturalplastic
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02 Feb 2017, 10:23 pm

The movie starring Barbara Streisand? Dont think that I have actually seen it all of the way through.

It came out when I was a pre teen kid. I knew the "Owl and the p**** Cat" as a nursery rhyme. So I demanded to know what the new movie of the same name was about that the grownups were all talking about. Mom heaved a sigh, and told me that it was "about a guy who is a lot like an owl, who meets a girl who is....um.... a lot like a pussycat" thus deftly sidestepped having to explain to me that Streisand's character was a prostitute. I still get a good laugh out of it when I am reminded of it even now. Thanks. :D

Streisand did wear a rather memorable outfit in it at one point - that thing with the pink hand shaped things pushing up on her bust.



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02 Feb 2017, 10:27 pm

On the topic, this was a neat side-article in Alan Moore's Watchmen comic

Blood from the Shoulder of Pallas:
http://coldclaritymountain.blogspot.com ... en_15.html


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EzraS
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03 Feb 2017, 12:55 am

naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol.




Darmok wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:

I said, "So the bald eagle is the well known bird symbol of America and the owl is the lesser known bird symbol [of America]". That was not a question, but rather a simple offhand statement of personal perception.


Why did you expend verbiage to write this?

Whether it was an observation, or whether it was question, either way, it makes no difference to how another person would respond to your statement.

Your statement showed a total lack of understanding because its factually wrong on two counts demanding correction of you by others on both of those two counts. Those two counts being (1)you thought that we were saying that the owl is a "bird symbol of America" which it is not (and no one said it was), and (b) that the owl as a symbol is lesser known than the bald eagle is as a symbol (when in fact the owl is at least as well known).


So what you're saying is the bald eagle and owl are interchangeable American symbols unless the owl is with the pussycat and or a goose is making a phone call to Richard Gere. But what if it's a Canadian Goose?



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03 Feb 2017, 1:04 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ever see "The Owl and the Pussycat?"


No but it was read to me lots of times. It's probably still in my bookshelf somewhere.