Experts question Trump' s Mental State

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lostonearth35
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16 Feb 2017, 9:12 pm

I wonder if there's any way I can be medically put into a coma for the next 4 years or more.



cyberdad
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16 Feb 2017, 9:48 pm

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Oh, look, the source is the New York Times, the most insanely liberally biased news-source in the world...


The letter to the NYT has been republished (it's not produced by the NYT), the authors chose that medium because it has the biggest circulation of US printmedia



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16 Feb 2017, 10:05 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
A total of 35 of the most highly respected psychiatrists and psychologists in the US have written a letter to editor of the New York Times warning that Donald Trump’s speeches and actions demonstrate an inability to tolerate views different from his own, leading to rage reactions. His words and behavior suggest a profound inability to empathize. According to this esteemed group of individuals with these traits distort reality to suit their psychological state, attacking facts and those who convey them
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/opin ... .html?_r=0
The group is headed by Professor Lance Dodes is a retired assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Professor Joseph Schachter who is a former chairman of the Committee on Research Proposals, International Psychoanalytic Association.

It brings a serious issue which is whether a person with a mental illness should be having access to nuclear codes??


Back in 1964 the shrinks (mostly liberal Democrats) pulled that sh*t with Barry Goldwater implying that Goldwater's strong anti-Soviet stand was clearly do to psychosis. It was pure bullsh*t.

Now here is the Word. A proper psychiatric diagnosis requires an examination of the patient including a neurophysiological workup to determine whether the patient is suffering from a neurological physical ailment.

No ethical psychiatrist would base a diagnosis purely on external behavior. Trump behavior is completely at odds with the Washington crowd. Trump has zero political experience. He never sought nor held office until he was elected as President of the United States. He did not run with political crowd and he never was one of the Beautiful People.

Trumps behavior absolutely appalls the liberal progressive crowd. He is a hard boiled real-estate man. He isn't a banker. He isn't a stock or bond broker and he ran in different circles from the Wall Street financial elite.


I agree that you can't formally diagnose anyone via media exposure.
What the psychiatrists are advising is that the common traits observed on a consistent basis indicate that Trump demonstrates a "strong" inability to tolerate views different to his own or empathise with how others are feeling. The pattern is indicative of individuals who distort reality attacking facts as a form of self-medication...(its no big secret Trump attacks plenty of people based on his own opinions rather than fact)

One (out of many hundred) example is the disproportionate amount of time President Trump spends on twitter attacking B-grade Hollywood celebrities (and just about anyone who disagrees with him) in an almost childish (and spiteful) manner when he should be responsibly dedicating his time serving the US people dealing with major issues such as jobs, trade, taxes, health and education.

It amuses me that people with no formal training in mental health can project their personal objection of a assessment by a Professor of psychiatry in Harvard medical School and in turn question the entire field of psychiatry on the basis that the subject of the assessment is Donald Trump.



cyberdad
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16 Feb 2017, 10:09 pm

League_Girl wrote:
You know, he could just be an as*hole? Has anyone thought of that?

I guess with Trump he's a package deal



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19 Feb 2017, 8:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
A total of 35 of the most highly respected psychiatrists and psychologists in the US have written a letter to editor of the New York Times warning that Donald Trump’s speeches and actions demonstrate an inability to tolerate views different from his own, leading to rage reactions. His words and behavior suggest a profound inability to empathize. According to this esteemed group of individuals with these traits distort reality to suit their psychological state, attacking facts and those who convey them
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/opin ... .html?_r=0
The group is headed by Professor Lance Dodes is a retired assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Professor Joseph Schachter who is a former chairman of the Committee on Research Proposals, International Psychoanalytic Association.

It brings a serious issue which is whether a person with a mental illness should be having access to nuclear codes??


Back in 1964 the shrinks (mostly liberal Democrats) pulled that sh*t with Barry Goldwater implying that Goldwater's strong anti-Soviet stand was clearly do to psychosis. It was pure bullsh*t.

Now here is the Word. A proper psychiatric diagnosis requires an examination of the patient including a neurophysiological workup to determine whether the patient is suffering from a neurological physical ailment.

No ethical psychiatrist would base a diagnosis purely on external behavior. Trump behavior is completely at odds with the Washington crowd. Trump has zero political experience. He never sought nor held office until he was elected as President of the United States. He did not run with political crowd and he never was one of the Beautiful People.

Trumps behavior absolutely appalls the liberal progressive crowd. He is a hard boiled real-estate man. He isn't a banker. He isn't a stock or bond broker and he ran in different circles from the Wall Street financial elite.


I agree that you can't formally diagnose anyone via media exposure.
What the psychiatrists are advising is that the common traits observed on a consistent basis indicate that Trump demonstrates a "strong" inability to tolerate views different to his own or empathise with how others are feeling. The pattern is indicative of individuals who distort reality attacking facts as a form of self-medication...(its no big secret Trump attacks plenty of people based on his own opinions rather than fact)

One (out of many hundred) example is the disproportionate amount of time President Trump spends on twitter attacking B-grade Hollywood celebrities (and just about anyone who disagrees with him) in an almost childish (and spiteful) manner when he should be responsibly dedicating his time serving the US people dealing with major issues such as jobs, trade, taxes, health and education.

It amuses me that people with no formal training in mental health can project their personal objection of a assessment by a Professor of psychiatry in Harvard medical School and in turn question the entire field of psychiatry on the basis that the subject of the assessment is Donald Trump.


Does questioning armchair diagnosis via media exposure actually question the entire filed of psychiatry, or rather just a very tiny fringe portion of it? If using Twitter to rebut someone is really a sign of mental illness, wouldn't mean diagnosing most twitter users as mentally ill? And does making a few Tweets a day really use up all of someone's time and energy? Or isn't there really just a minuscule amount of time involved?



cyberdad
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19 Feb 2017, 10:53 pm

EzraS wrote:
Does questioning armchair diagnosis via media exposure actually question the entire filed of psychiatry, or rather just a very tiny fringe portion of it? If using Twitter to rebut someone is really a sign of mental illness, wouldn't mean diagnosing most twitter users as mentally ill? And does making a few Tweets a day really use up all of someone's time and energy? Or isn't there really just a minuscule amount of time involved?


Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"



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20 Feb 2017, 12:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Does questioning armchair diagnosis via media exposure actually question the entire filed of psychiatry, or rather just a very tiny fringe portion of it? If using Twitter to rebut someone is really a sign of mental illness, wouldn't mean diagnosing most twitter users as mentally ill? And does making a few Tweets a day really use up all of someone's time and energy? Or isn't there really just a minuscule amount of time involved?


Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"


To me it's still observation based on TV and Twitter. When I talk about armchair opinion, I mean diagnosing from a laptop based on TV appearances. Personally I think that's the sort of thing the cream of mental health specialists would steer clear of. Far as I know doctors don't usually go around broadcasting what they think someone's condcondition is, unless they're doing it for publicity like Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew etc.

The man is 70 years old and ran a multifaceted business empire for decades, but has never experienced any significant consequences that people with significant mental health issues experience.



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20 Feb 2017, 1:07 am

Exactly where can I read up on the specific diagnostic-criteria for myself ? The DSM-V ? Have you looked into the actual diagnostic-criteria for yourself ? Will you tell me in which pages of the DSM they are ?
Exactly which Harvard-Professors are we talking about ? I hear George Bush also came out of Harvard.
I would like the specific names of these Harvard-Professors of Psychiatry and sources that claim they are.

cyberdad wrote:
Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"


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20 Feb 2017, 3:23 am

EzraS wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Does questioning armchair diagnosis via media exposure actually question the entire filed of psychiatry, or rather just a very tiny fringe portion of it? If using Twitter to rebut someone is really a sign of mental illness, wouldn't mean diagnosing most twitter users as mentally ill? And does making a few Tweets a day really use up all of someone's time and energy? Or isn't there really just a minuscule amount of time involved?


Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"


To me it's still observation based on TV and Twitter. When I talk about armchair opinion, I mean diagnosing from a laptop based on TV appearances. Personally I think that's the sort of thing the cream of mental health specialists would steer clear of. Far as I know doctors don't usually go around broadcasting what they think someone's condcondition is, unless they're doing it for publicity like Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew etc.

The man is 70 years old and ran a multifaceted business empire for decades, but has never experienced any significant consequences that people with significant mental health issues experience.

One distinction with running a private business empire is you don't need any morals or ethics. For example Trump has declared bankrupt around 5 times causing many in his business to lose their jobs and thousands of shareholders losing money and probably a few jumping out of buildings. If he does the same to the US economy then he can go and hide in Trump Towers while the US economy goes bankrupt



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20 Feb 2017, 3:24 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
Exactly where can I read up on the specific diagnostic-criteria for myself ? The DSM-V ? Have you looked into the actual diagnostic-criteria for yourself ? Will you tell me in which pages of the DSM they are ?
Exactly which Harvard-Professors are we talking about ? I hear George Bush also came out of Harvard.
I would like the specific names of these Harvard-Professors of Psychiatry and sources that claim they are.

cyberdad wrote:
Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"

refer to my previous posts in this thread



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20 Feb 2017, 4:50 am

cyberdad wrote:
One distinction with running a private business empire is you don't need any morals or ethics. For example Trump has declared bankrupt around 5 times causing many in his business to lose their jobs and thousands of shareholders losing money and probably a few jumping out of buildings. If he does the same to the US economy then he can go and hide in Trump Towers while the US economy goes bankrupt


The distinction you're giving is not a consequence of mental illness nor is it a lack morals and ethics for that matter. Another president who had declared bankruptcy was Abraham Lincoln. Along with him many celebrated business pioneers such as Milton Hershey, Walt Disney, Henry Ford etc filed for bankruptcy numerous times.

At this point I'll expect you to bring up Hitler in conjunction with Disney and Ford, just as I expected you to bring up bankruptcy. Because theses same things get brought up over and over again by so many. But the thing is, they don't really prove anything. It's really more a matter of witch hunt type finger pointing. I don't have to be a fan of Trump to see these things for what they are.



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20 Feb 2017, 6:17 am

You are trying to tell me that a newspaper is a credible source of information ?
The New York Times of all things (the one that all of the other MSM news-outlets simply copy from).
I know «professionals» within the psychological-industry and, unless you have actually met a particular subject or client in-person, the courts and other such departments will not accept the evaluation.

Furthermore, you are NOT answering my question, but simply dodging my question. Have YOU personally «double-checked» the information being brought forth by those so-called Harvard-professors from an ACTUAL DSM-manual yourself ? What PAGE (of the DSM itself) can I find these diagnoses ? I am asking for the MEDICAL-CRITERIA and not a newspaper-article. I want the FULL report. Something like this...

Serotonin and Depression: A Disconnect between the Advertisements and the Scientific Literature

Come to think of it do you even have a DSM-Manual ?
cyberdad wrote:
Ban-Dodger wrote:
Exactly where can I read up on the specific diagnostic-criteria for myself ? The DSM-V ? Have you looked into the actual diagnostic-criteria for yourself ? Will you tell me in which pages of the DSM they are ?
Exactly which Harvard-Professors are we talking about ? I hear George Bush also came out of Harvard.
I would like the specific names of these Harvard-Professors of Psychiatry and sources that claim they are.

cyberdad wrote:
Diagnostic criteria includes objective observation of how a person Like Trump behaves in public. It's not just his twitter feed, the observations include his speeches and his public behavior. Harvard professors of psychiatry we are talking the cream of mental health specialists on a global level. Hardly what I would call "armchair opinion"

refer to my previous posts in this thread
P.S.: Within your very own link I think you should pay attention to a very important word... opinion.
https : // www . nytimes . com / 2017 / 02 / 13 / opinion / mental-health-professionals-warn-about-trump.html


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20 Feb 2017, 7:01 am

I think his mental state is pretty evident from his behaviour and his addresses to the public. What's interesting is the mass acceptance of someone who is clearly in need of assistance.



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20 Feb 2017, 8:09 am

I'd say the masses experiencing Trump Derangement Syndrome are really the ones in need of assistance.



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20 Feb 2017, 8:27 am

EzraS wrote:
I'd say the masses experiencing Trump Derangement Syndrome are really the ones in need of assistance.


Can you define Trump Derangement Syndrome, just so we have our terms right.