What would a "cured" autistic person look like?

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iliketrees
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05 Mar 2017, 1:47 pm

xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.



xxJennaxx
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05 Mar 2017, 2:33 pm

iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.


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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200

I have Asperger's and OCD. I love languages.


iliketrees
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05 Mar 2017, 3:26 pm

xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.



xxJennaxx
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06 Mar 2017, 11:23 am

iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


I agree, but I mean that they can afford to have people look after their child.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 174 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200

I have Asperger's and OCD. I love languages.


iliketrees
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06 Mar 2017, 11:27 am

xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


I agree, but I mean that they can afford to have people look after their child.

But why bring that child into the world if it's not you looking after them?



ArielsSong
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06 Mar 2017, 11:28 am

iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.



xxJennaxx
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06 Mar 2017, 11:36 am

iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


I agree, but I mean that they can afford to have people look after their child.

But why bring that child into the world if it's not you looking after them?


I mean more in situations where you can't be there and are worried about them.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 174 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200

I have Asperger's and OCD. I love languages.


xxJennaxx
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06 Mar 2017, 11:37 am

ArielsSong wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.


I agree with this.


_________________
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 174 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200

I have Asperger's and OCD. I love languages.


iliketrees
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06 Mar 2017, 12:28 pm

ArielsSong wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.

I don't know what it's like to want to be a parent so I was just guessing, sorry. I would rather kill myself than have kids. Clearly it's going to be a much higher responsibility if the kid has a disability because you have all the standard kid caring and then you've got the disability stuff on top. Is it possible to be prepared for the standard stuff but not be able to deal with that disability on top?



xxJennaxx
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06 Mar 2017, 12:44 pm

iliketrees wrote:
ArielsSong wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.

I don't know what it's like to want to be a parent so I was just guessing, sorry. I would rather kill myself than have kids. Clearly it's going to be a much higher responsibility if the kid has a disability because you have all the standard kid caring and then you've got the disability stuff on top. Is it possible to be prepared for the standard stuff but not be able to deal with that disability on top?


Probably, especially for people with no knowledge of the disability or who have a disability themselves. I hope I have not upset you; I realize that I get quite forceful in discussions.


_________________
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Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 29 of 200

I have Asperger's and OCD. I love languages.


iliketrees
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06 Mar 2017, 1:04 pm

xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
ArielsSong wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.

I don't know what it's like to want to be a parent so I was just guessing, sorry. I would rather kill myself than have kids. Clearly it's going to be a much higher responsibility if the kid has a disability because you have all the standard kid caring and then you've got the disability stuff on top. Is it possible to be prepared for the standard stuff but not be able to deal with that disability on top?


Probably, especially for people with no knowledge of the disability or who have a disability themselves. I hope I have not upset you; I realize that I get quite forceful in discussions.

You haven't, don't worry.

If someone would not be able to care for the child, would it not be acceptable to abort the foetus?



ArielsSong
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06 Mar 2017, 1:40 pm

iliketrees wrote:
ArielsSong wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
xxJennaxx wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I wish there was some sort of invention where autism in an unborn child can be detected, a bit like how Down's Syndrome can be detected before the child is born. That way I can choose whether to abort the baby or not. I wouldn't want a child with Down's Syndrome either, or anything that will cause any developmental delays or differences for the child.


...You are joking, right?


I've already explained why in this thread, look for that post of mine.


I still don't see why you'd abort a child because it had autism. Some autistic people, just like neurotypical people, will wish they were dead, etc, but plenty of autistics have happy lives. We're not burdens- we're human beings and are much more than just a disability.

Same with people with Down's. Are you against testing for and aborting high chance Down's Syndrome foetuses as well?


Yeah

Can you see why people would abort? I came up with a few reasons in my previous comments, I don't see myself ever getting pregnant though - if I was considering it then I'd be able to come up with more most likely. If you can see why someone would abort a DS foetus, the reasons would be very similar for an ASD foetus.


I can definitely see how your point about the person's vulnerability in both childhood and adulthood would be a possible concern for expecting parents, but I just don't think - with the modern understanding of the conditions and the whole carer's allowance being how it is - that any condition (that allows generally a high quality of life) should be a reason to abort a child.

When people choose to have kids, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because they want to be parents, not because they want to be carers - they could do that as a career.


A parent is a carer. Whether your child is NT and healthy, or has a disability, they still require care and support. Some more than others, yes, but it's irresponsible to become a parent just for the 'perfect moments'. A good parent is one that appreciates the hard times and the easy times equally - they're ALL what it's about. And if you're not prepared for that, you shouldn't be doing anything that could result in a pregnancy.

I don't know what it's like to want to be a parent so I was just guessing, sorry. I would rather kill myself than have kids. Clearly it's going to be a much higher responsibility if the kid has a disability because you have all the standard kid caring and then you've got the disability stuff on top. Is it possible to be prepared for the standard stuff but not be able to deal with that disability on top?


I would imagine so, but I think if that's the case then having children is a risk not worth taking. If there are limits to how far you'll go with your parenting, then don't assume that your parenting journey will be the easy one. Much as you are, by knowing that parenting is just not your thing. :)

Obviously, there are respite care services for those that really struggle and need some time out (for themselves, or for a disabled child's siblings that need some time that doesn't completely revolve around the needs of their brother and sister).

But, the fact is that there are millions of families out there with autistic children that are doing this parenting thing. So it is possible. And I have no doubt that they love their children and wouldn't have them any other way.

Sadly, there are also some people that would have had it another way. And honestly, I think those are the parents that should have taken a bit more time to think before making babies.

Abortion should not be an answer to "I wanted a perfect one, and mine's broken".

That said, science is taking us the way of being able to select traits such as eye colour, hair colour and sex, so clearly this "I want a perfect one" view is held by many.