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TwinRuler
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13 Mar 2017, 3:22 am

I think I may be a bit disillusioned with Christianity. After all, I am no Creationist. I firmly accept The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection, and, Christianity seems a bit too anti-Semitic, for my taste. At least some sects, still are!

:roll: Sometimes, though, I think we may be living in a Post Christian Age, in any event, especially after Vatican II. After all, three important doctrines are no longer adhered to any more, namely, the Latin Mass, the Concept of Christianity, Roman Catholicism in particular, as The One True Faith, and finally, the Doctrine that The Church replaced the Jews as The Chosen People. Realizing this much, we may be entering a new age.

And besides, I also fear that Great Britain will, one day soon, break up into its components: England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. For years, I had thought myself an Anglophile, but I think that gradually changed. I am not too sure why. Perhaps, just perhaps, it was due to a couple of current events: the attempt of Scotland to leave The United Kingdom, and the efforts of The United Kingdom itself to leave The European Union. I think, indeed, I may be having an Identity Crisis: or, at any rate, a couple of them.



Yo El
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22 Mar 2017, 2:22 am

TwinRuler wrote:
I think I may be a bit disillusioned with Christianity. After all, I am no Creationist. I firmly accept The Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection, and, Christianity seems a bit too anti-Semitic, for my taste. At least some sects, still are!

:roll: Sometimes, though, I think we may be living in a Post Christian Age, in any event, especially after Vatican II. After all, three important doctrines are no longer adhered to any more, namely, the Latin Mass, the Concept of Christianity, Roman Catholicism in particular, as The One True Faith, and finally, the Doctrine that The Church replaced the Jews as The Chosen People. Realizing this much, we may be entering a new age.

And besides, I also fear that Great Britain will, one day soon, break up into its components: England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. For years, I had thought myself an Anglophile, but I think that gradually changed. I am not too sure why. Perhaps, just perhaps, it was due to a couple of current events: the attempt of Scotland to leave The United Kingdom, and the efforts of The United Kingdom itself to leave The European Union. I think, indeed, I may be having an Identity Crisis: or, at any rate, a couple of them.
I think it's hard for someone to be both a Christian and an anti-Semite. Jesus was a jew so that wouldn't make any sense :lol:



wrongcitizen
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22 Mar 2017, 2:48 am

I love Christianity, not love, but at least I love studying it. I'm a fan of culture and religious studies so I'm pretty opened to it, but that doesn't mean I directly believe it.

It IS a middle eastern, and in essence a Semitic, religion as well. Many of it's institutions, language, ideologies, concepts, originated from proto-Semitic languages or ones within the proximity of one. The architecture and culture which it has brought to Europe is noticeable in this respect. As much as it has been influenced by Greco-Roman and European Hebrew ideologies it is in it's essence of the Levantine cultural sphere and should be acknowledged as such.

Persia and Arabia, 2 of the most powerful historical and modern states of the mid east before the Turks arrived, were both heavily Christianized. Christianity had already reached the far eastern fringe of Persia, now the border between Pakistan and India, and it was practiced in Yemen along with Judaism.

I think you should accept whatever you want, because we have that luxury. You can feel free to tell us, but I would suggest making sure it is what you want and not what someone has convinced you to believe, unless you feel you can trust what they are saying. I'm agnostic but I am opened to what people tell me because I always want to revise something that I don't have an answer to.

And lastly, I know this sis a lot but I want to respond to this. If the UK does break apart, there is always the possibility of it's reunification. Nothing stays the same. We've been in our current political climate for about 100 years, and in the 1800s the world was vastly different. Now go back 1000 years and it would be indescribable. It will restore to the state it was previously at one time or another, we just may not live to see it, but keep this in mind just for comfort I guess. What the people desire is what will be, and if they want the UK (which they do) then they will have the UK for as long as they continue to want it.



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22 Mar 2017, 10:19 pm

There are Christians who are antisemites, and there are Christians who are anti-antisemites (not to mention that there are also "Jews for Jesus"). And there have been anti-Christians who blame the Jews for creating Christianity, and there have been anti-Christians who blame Christianity for anti-semitism. And each of the above are about equally logical, and about equally illogical.

Jesus was Jewish, but (supposedly) the Jews were the ones who had him killed. So take your pick.

But I dont see why you cant be both Christian, an NOT antisemitic.

And I dont see why you cant be both Christian, and still take Genesis as a metaphoric myth that isnt meant to be taken literally, and still believe in an ancient Earth that slowly evolved over the eons.



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23 Mar 2017, 12:55 am

I fancy myself a Christian, but I absolutely know evolution is true, just as I absolutely know the Pacific ocean washes on the western shore of America.
As I'm a Protestant (Lutheran, to be exact), I hardly see the progressive steps taken by Roman Catholicism as a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Antisemitism is indefensible, as is any form of bigotry. Incidentally, the doctrine of supersecesionism, or Replacement theology, in which the Christian Church is viewed as the successor of Judaism, is in itself hardly Antisemitic, though Antismites have used it to justify their hate. Unfortunately, Martin Luther, who had also defended this doctrine, in his last years when his mental faculties declined along with his physical state due to severe illnesses, lashed out at a great many people who had done him no harm, including the Jews. Because of that, Replacement theology has been misused and misinterpreted by bigots on both sides with an axe to grind with both that doctrine, and Luther.


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ZachGoodwin
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01 Apr 2017, 2:26 am

Christianity is not a religion of hate and bigotry, and yes there are some Christian examples who honestly are hateful, but you should really look at religious people as only human like you and me. Yes, there is stuff on the news showing religious people as insane. I have not even watch the latest Christian films, but I have purchased Christian metal before. I am reading through the Christian teachings, and read it practically and historically, and have learned the opposite from hate, and that is caring about people even though they are different. It really is how you look at us and our teachings that you will see something different.

I really do not hate Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, other forms of Christianity, Satanists, Pagans, or anything else, but am actually humble to be around them and enjoy their company, because the right thing to actually do as a Christian is to be nonjudgemental of others, and let go of differences. Please do not twist us as something creepy and vulgar. We are all only human and flawed like anyone else.



Last edited by ZachGoodwin on 01 Apr 2017, 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

kitesandtrainsandcats
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01 Apr 2017, 2:55 am

My own Christian faith experience is something of a mess at the moment and even though I feel ready to dump it I keep doing things to recover it.
Perhaps that means something?
----
Thinking these might be of interest and usefulness, here are some of the various books I've acquired and read over the last year or two.
Title and authors: enough to be able to look up the books.
there is probably a proper format for listing books but my body is being difficult to get along with here at 02:38 in the morning so i'm not going to bother looking it up.

> Misreading scripture with western eyes, Removing cultural blinders to better understand the Bible
Richards & O'Brien

> To heal a fractured world, the ethics of responsibility
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks

> Not in God's name, confronting religious violence
Rabbi Sacks

> Who was Adam? A creation model approach to the origin of man
Rana & Ross

> Who designed the designer? A rediscovered path to God's existence
Augros

> Not God's type, an atheist academic lays down her arms
Holly Ordway

> The great partnership, science, religion, and the search for meaning
Rabbi Sacks

I found those to have value.
-----
And then something I wrote and posted about why Christians should not post and share internet rumors and hoaxes several years ago while I was still on Facebook (I left in 2015 after 7 years on it).
It was interesting how many were what we might politely describe as 'energetically offended' by my saying that spreading hoaxes and rumors was wrong morally and spiritually.
anyway, here it is; (if I'm quoting myself is it actually a quote requiring quote marks?)

"Yes, it is indeed and directly about faith and religion.
What is it with so many professing Christians being so blind to the subtle, insidious, guerrilla tactics of the spiritual war and being (from what I have seen in around 13 years of email and 4 years of Facebook) the biggest myrmidonic dissemenators of hoaxes and untruths?
And in irony of ironies, it is the Atheists who I have seen to be the lesser spreaders of these internet untruths - the people who are Not about "The way, the Truth, and The light" are in fact appearing to be the most truthful - Amazing! And not at all graceful.
It is well clear how some militant atheists are only too happy to demean and discredit believers and the church - but, hey, saves them time and effort when the Christians themselves slander the church via the avenue of distributing untruth.
Don't you get it, people, are you so blind that you can not see how you are aiding and abetting the enemy?
When the people who proclaim themselves to be devoted followers of "The way, the truth, and the light" spread gossip, hoax, and rumor, it supports Satan's goal of slandering the Church and driving people away from Christ -- The "if-then" logic in the unbeliever flows like this - "Well, if the Christians are spreading around so many of these things which are not true, then maybe those things they claim about creation, God, sin, Jesus, and salvation are also hoaxes." And that certainly is not making the cause of Christ look appealing.
There is zero excuse for followers of "The way, the Truth, and The light" to be spreading internet gossip, hoax, and rumor - and doubly so in an age where the veracity of the message can be determined in mere seconds with a copy, paste, and click, in their favorite search engine.
And I've had my fill of the people of my faith slandering my faith."

Maybe I overdid. Maybe it is that big a deal. I suppose some day we might find out.


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Yo El
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01 Apr 2017, 7:01 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
My own Christian faith experience is something of a mess at the moment and even though I feel ready to dump it I keep doing things to recover it.
Perhaps that means something?
----
Thinking these might be of interest and usefulness, here are some of the various books I've acquired and read over the last year or two.
Title and authors: enough to be able to look up the books.
there is probably a proper format for listing books but my body is being difficult to get along with here at 02:38 in the morning so i'm not going to bother looking it up.

> Misreading scripture with western eyes, Removing cultural blinders to better understand the Bible
Richards & O'Brien

> To heal a fractured world, the ethics of responsibility
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks

> Not in God's name, confronting religious violence
Rabbi Sacks

> Who was Adam? A creation model approach to the origin of man
Rana & Ross

> Who designed the designer? A rediscovered path to God's existence
Augros

> Not God's type, an atheist academic lays down her arms
Holly Ordway

> The great partnership, science, religion, and the search for meaning
Rabbi Sacks

I found those to have value.
-----
And then something I wrote and posted about why Christians should not post and share internet rumors and hoaxes several years ago while I was still on Facebook (I left in 2015 after 7 years on it).
It was interesting how many were what we might politely describe as 'energetically offended' by my saying that spreading hoaxes and rumors was wrong morally and spiritually.
anyway, here it is; (if I'm quoting myself is it actually a quote requiring quote marks?)

"Yes, it is indeed and directly about faith and religion.
What is it with so many professing Christians being so blind to the subtle, insidious, guerrilla tactics of the spiritual war and being (from what I have seen in around 13 years of email and 4 years of Facebook) the biggest myrmidonic dissemenators of hoaxes and untruths?
And in irony of ironies, it is the Atheists who I have seen to be the lesser spreaders of these internet untruths - the people who are Not about "The way, the Truth, and The light" are in fact appearing to be the most truthful - Amazing! And not at all graceful.
It is well clear how some militant atheists are only too happy to demean and discredit believers and the church - but, hey, saves them time and effort when the Christians themselves slander the church via the avenue of distributing untruth.
Don't you get it, people, are you so blind that you can not see how you are aiding and abetting the enemy?
When the people who proclaim themselves to be devoted followers of "The way, the truth, and the light" spread gossip, hoax, and rumor, it supports Satan's goal of slandering the Church and driving people away from Christ -- The "if-then" logic in the unbeliever flows like this - "Well, if the Christians are spreading around so many of these things which are not true, then maybe those things they claim about creation, God, sin, Jesus, and salvation are also hoaxes." And that certainly is not making the cause of Christ look appealing.
There is zero excuse for followers of "The way, the Truth, and The light" to be spreading internet gossip, hoax, and rumor - and doubly so in an age where the veracity of the message can be determined in mere seconds with a copy, paste, and click, in their favorite search engine.
And I've had my fill of the people of my faith slandering my faith."

Maybe I overdid. Maybe it is that big a deal. I suppose some day we might find out.
Yes indeed there are a lot of hoaxes going around. Makes you seem unreliable to other people when it comes to truths. Don't dump your faith!

Romans 5:3-5
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Ofcourse quoting Scripture isn't always the thing people need in hard situations like this one so feel free to talk to me whenever you want.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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01 Apr 2017, 9:46 am

Yo El wrote:
Ofcourse quoting Scripture isn't always the thing people need in hard situations like this one so feel free to talk to me whenever you want.
Hey y'all, good morning. I'll take you up on that offer, thanks.
At the moment there are things I want to get done here, so, it will be later. At some random time.
But, yeah, though full of value, Bible verses are not magic insta-spells, life still requires the living of life.


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Yo El
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01 Apr 2017, 10:02 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Yo El wrote:
Ofcourse quoting Scripture isn't always the thing people need in hard situations like this one so feel free to talk to me whenever you want.
Hey y'all, good morning. I'll take you up on that offer, thanks.
At the moment there are things I want to get done here, so, it will be later. At some random time.
But, yeah, though full of value, Bible verses are not magic insta-spells, life still requires the living of life.
Agreed.



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01 Apr 2017, 10:15 am

I really respect taking a stand against Internet slanders.


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01 Apr 2017, 10:43 am

TwinRuler wrote:
...I think we may be living in a Post Christian Age...especially after Vatican II. After all, three important doctrines are no longer adhered to any more, namely, the Latin Mass, the Concept of Christianity, Roman Catholicism in particular, as The One True Faith, and finally, the Doctrine that The Church replaced the Jews as The Chosen People. Realizing this much, we may be entering a new age.

I would say post-Christendom in the sense that Christianity no longer rules, and I would also say that is a good thing since the disciples of early Christianity had never been told to take over the world. And then for some perspective, maybe take a look at "The End of Christendom and the Future Christianity" by Douglas John Hall. Many years ago I was shocked when some friends told me Peter had been the first Pope, and they had no response when I asked them what Peter might have had to say about that!

So where does that leave us and where are we headed? The so-called "War On Terrorism" stemming from the 9-11 crashes at the Twin Towers is about eliminating all monotheism in favor of pluralism -- "Either you are with us [pluralists] or you are with the terrorists." -- but these are also "The Days of Elijah" and our Maker cannot be destroyed.


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