The Body Positive and Fat Acceptance Movement

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CockneyRebel
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15 Apr 2017, 1:27 pm

This is the best thing that's happened in recent years. I stay away from the Fish n Chips most of the time now. I only have sweets on special occasions like Valentines Day, Easter, birthdays and Christmas. I've slipped with the Pringles and Doritos. I'll be replacing those with salad for the next 5 months while salad is cheap. I'll also be saving up my money at the same time so I can afford salad all year round. I also drink Mio water more often than pop. My goal is to get to the point where I'm drinking pure water and Mio water instead of diet soda and Mio water.


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auntblabby
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16 Apr 2017, 2:26 am

^^^^ :wtg:



tensordyne
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17 Apr 2017, 4:17 pm

I have not responded recently. Realize what happened with my anger with @Kraichguaer. Looked up meaning of anger. It happens when someone mistreats you. So how did @Kraichgauer supposedly mistreat myself?

By being smugly indifferent. It is a kind of low-level, lame aggression (my older bro I realized later used to pull the same kind of thing which is why I was so pieved). To be clear it happened when I gave copious reasons but he responded with "No, I just like meat." Uhh, excuse you for not playing the game of being reasonable. That No did not address anything. It was just a big FU to myself cleverely and conceled behind being "social".

Quote:
I haven't​ responded lately but I would like to cover some things.

1. I am not vegan
2. I'm not addicted to any sort of food

My thread isn't about veganism.


Point 1. sure, what is the point in disagreeing, but on two, how do you know?

Addiction Characteristics:

a. You do not need it. Try eating nothing but meat and you will die. Then go eat nothing but plants and you will thrive.

b. It causes you and others harm. The scientific lit on this one is little understood by the general populace but it is clear. Want to die earlier while being overweight, go ahead and eat animal products so you can kill yourself. That is just the tip of the iceberg though.

c. You can't or don't want to give it up. That is the main thing I hear as a response to Vegan arguments "but I like it sooo much", yeah, crack addicts love that ringing feeling too I have heard. Your own experience being the only consideration as to whether something is good, sounds like an argument an addict would make to me.

or psychology today:

Quote:
Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (e.g., alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (e.g., gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continuation of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary responsibilities and concerns, such as work, relationships, or health.


In the case of carnism it is health that gets messed up obviously, but this has other effects as well. How many men have had prostate cancer and become impotent? Wives and Lovers get affected. Sounds like an adverse affect of addiction to me.

The thread from my own point of view is about accepting a disease condition based on popular opinions. Why not challenge the basis of this thread? There is an obesity epidemic occuring after all.

Shouldn't science and morality always be on the table as a discussion point? If not, why not? I don't call this an addiction lightly. It is not a derogatory term of shame, it is a medical dianoses.

https://youtu.be/5VWi6dXCT7I
https://youtu.be/0tJyb1wTxg4

I do not care if this thread is not intended to be about Veganism, Carnism, or whatever. The stakes are too high. If I disagree with the very basis of this thread then that is still about the thread, even if I decide not to be a cheerleader for whatever cause the thread advocates. Too bad. :P

Go Vegan!


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Kraichgauer
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17 Apr 2017, 5:08 pm

tensordyne wrote:
I have not responded recently. Realize what happened with my anger with @Kraichguaer. Looked up meaning of anger. It happens when someone mistreats you. So how did @Kraichgauer supposedly mistreat myself?

By being smugly indifferent. It is a kind of low-level, lame aggression (my older bro I realized later used to pull the same kind of thing which is why I was so pieved). To be clear it happened when I gave copious reasons but he responded with "No, I just like meat." Uhh, excuse you for not playing the game of being reasonable. That No did not address anything. It was just a big FU to myself cleverely and conceled behind being "social".

Quote:
I haven't​ responded lately but I would like to cover some things.

1. I am not vegan
2. I'm not addicted to any sort of food

My thread isn't about veganism.


Point 1. sure, what is the point in disagreeing, but on two, how do you know?

Addiction Characteristics:

a. You do not need it. Try eating nothing but meat and you will die. Then go eat nothing but plants and you will thrive.

b. It causes you and others harm. The scientific lit on this one is little understood by the general populace but it is clear. Want to die earlier while being overweight, go ahead and eat animal products so you can kill yourself. That is just the tip of the iceberg though.

c. You can't or don't want to give it up. That is the main thing I hear as a response to Vegan arguments "but I like it sooo much", yeah, crack addicts love that ringing feeling too I have heard. Your own experience being the only consideration as to whether something is good, sounds like an argument an addict would make to me.

or psychology today:

Quote:
Addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (e.g., alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (e.g., gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continuation of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary responsibilities and concerns, such as work, relationships, or health.


In the case of carnism it is health that gets messed up obviously, but this has other effects as well. How many men have had prostate cancer and become impotent? Wives and Lovers get affected. Sounds like an adverse affect of addiction to me.

The thread from my own point of view is about accepting a disease condition based on popular opinions. Why not challenge the basis of this thread? There is an obesity epidemic occuring after all.

Shouldn't science and morality always be on the table as a discussion point? If not, why not? I don't call this an addiction lightly. It is not a derogatory term of shame, it is a medical dianoses.

https://youtu.be/5VWi6dXCT7I
https://youtu.be/0tJyb1wTxg4

I do not care if this thread is not intended to be about Veganism, Carnism, or whatever. The stakes are too high. If I disagree with the very basis of this thread then that is still about the thread, even if I decide not to be a cheerleader for whatever cause the thread advocates. Too bad. :P

Go Vegan!


I did not mistreat you, though I'm sorry if you thought I did. I am simply stating that I will eat what I like. I was in fact offended by how you had likened me to a drug addict for eating meat. Eating meat is my choice, and hardly an addiction to be saved from.


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auntblabby
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17 Apr 2017, 5:39 pm

it seems to me that many aspies tend to have a stuck groove.



tensordyne
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17 Apr 2017, 5:47 pm

Quote:
I did not mistreat you, though I'm sorry if you thought I did. I am simply stating that I will eat what I like. I was in fact offended by how you had likened me to a drug addict for eating meat. Eating meat is my choice, and hardly an addiction to be saved from.


Not respecting me enough to respond to any of my logic with anything but a
"No, I don't think so", a very mild form of mistreatment for sure. When they pull out the rape carts to impregnate cows, when they put give you drugs instead of competent medical advice, etc, etc. That is real mistreatment.

Well, we are talking at least. Why is meat your choice? Like inviolably your choice? Does that not presume a number of realities? We do not say it is a choice to be able to do what ever we want on other topics. Murder is not allowed, even if you choose it. Face it, if someone calls you out on some behavior, how is it not weak to be all, "well, it is my choice, I like it..." etc?

I am sorry you felt bad about being called an addict, I was being provocative on purpose to challenge you and the narative. Since the addict term literally applies, I can not, and will not, take it back. Although, I have given reasons why I think eating meat is bad and an addiction. Care to address anything I factually mentioned? Because, again, why should you be allowed to argue by fiat? "I think such and such is so...", no outside refs, no internal arguments, nothing, just, "well, that is me!"

If eating meat had only negative affects on yourself, I would gladly leave you alone to die whatever miserable malady is most likely to affect you. Since your addiction requires the painful slaughter and imprisonement of billions of other sentient entities, plus a very real risk to society, sorry man, I just got to call BS when I see it.

Again, to be clear,

"arguments" = strong
"I say so" = weak

Go Vegan!


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Kraichgauer
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17 Apr 2017, 6:16 pm

tensordyne wrote:
Quote:
I did not mistreat you, though I'm sorry if you thought I did. I am simply stating that I will eat what I like. I was in fact offended by how you had likened me to a drug addict for eating meat. Eating meat is my choice, and hardly an addiction to be saved from.


Not respecting me enough to respond to any of my logic with anything but a
"No, I don't think so", a very mild form of mistreatment for sure. When they pull out the rape carts to impregnate cows, when they put give you drugs instead of competent medical advice, etc, etc. That is real mistreatment.

Well, we are talking at least. Why is meat your choice? Like inviolably your choice? Does that not presume a number of realities? We do not say it is a choice to be able to do what ever we want on other topics. Murder is not allowed, even if you choose it. Face it, if someone calls you out on some behavior, how is it not weak to be all, "well, it is my choice, I like it..." etc?

I am sorry you felt bad about being called an addict, I was being provocative on purpose to challenge you and the narative. Since the addict term literally applies, I can not, and will not, take it back. Although, I have given reasons why I think eating meat is bad and an addiction. Care to address anything I factually mentioned? Because, again, why should you be allowed to argue by fiat? "I think such and such is so...", no outside refs, no internal arguments, nothing, just, "well, that is me!"

If eating meat had only negative affects on yourself, I would gladly leave you alone to die whatever miserable malady is most likely to affect you. Since your addiction requires the painful slaughter and imprisonement of billions of other sentient entities, plus a very real risk to society, sorry man, I just got to call BS when I see it.

Again, to be clear,

"arguments" = strong
"I say so" = weak

Go Vegan!


You could simply accept my apology and explanation, and be polite.
No, animals I eat don't have a choice in the matter. But neither does the mouse have a choice in the matter when it's eaten by the cat, or when a crocodile eats some poor antelope taking a drink from a river, I'm sure the corc didn't ask for the antelope's consent. As I doubt you're going to hold any of this against carnivorous animals, so please, don't hold me to account.
And no, eating animals is not murder.


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auntblabby
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17 Apr 2017, 6:20 pm

I wonder what he would think about fake meat?



Kraichgauer
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17 Apr 2017, 9:04 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I wonder what he would think about fake meat?


Good question.


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cyberdad
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17 Apr 2017, 10:08 pm

tensordyne wrote:
Quote:
If eating meat had only negative affects on yourself, I would gladly leave you alone to die whatever miserable malady is most likely to affect you. Since your addiction requires the painful slaughter and imprisonement of billions of other sentient entities, plus a very real risk to society, sorry man, I just got to call BS when I see it.


I have family who are also militant vegans (not the best dinner company) and please be realistic that you can only take this argument so far.

I do agree that reliance on commercially produced meat and dairy products is not environmentally sustainable. I also agree that animals slaughtered in abboitoirs or kept in pens etc is inhumane.

Our society is in a transitional phase where we learn to look after our enivronment and treat animals humanely
Eventually we will rely less on animal products

But its also the height of middle class arrogance to expect that everyone can "afford" to live on a vegan diet. I know for a fact that organic/vegetarian/vegan food is expensive and often not accessible if especially if you live in poorer suburbs. This makes your attitude somewhat naive and a little ignorant.



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18 Apr 2017, 4:16 am

tensordyne wrote:
Not respecting me enough to respond to any of my logic with anything but a
"No, I don't think so", a very mild form of mistreatment for sure.

At least he responded to you. I see you have no response to my arguments.

Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree with this addiction nonsense. All life feeds off other life to live. It's not that we do it, it's how we do it. Which is why I support a change to humane treatment of food animals. We're not going to stop eating them, but at least we could be nice to them before we kill them.



Kraichgauer
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18 Apr 2017, 5:15 am

androbot01 wrote:
tensordyne wrote:
Not respecting me enough to respond to any of my logic with anything but a
"No, I don't think so", a very mild form of mistreatment for sure.

At least he responded to you. I see you have no response to my arguments.

Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree with this addiction nonsense. All life feeds off other life to live. It's not that we do it, it's how we do it. Which is why I support a change to humane treatment of food animals. We're not going to stop eating them, but at least we could be nice to them before we kill them.


I agree, 100%.


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auntblabby
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18 Apr 2017, 5:19 am

and if lab-grown meat ever becomes commercially feasible, better still.



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18 Apr 2017, 5:48 am

auntblabby wrote:
and if lab-grown meat ever becomes commercially feasible, better still.

Mock meat is actually quite tasty but I have a Gluten intolerance so can't eat it :(



auntblabby
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18 Apr 2017, 6:04 am

cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
and if lab-grown meat ever becomes commercially feasible, better still.

Mock meat is actually quite tasty but I have a Gluten intolerance so can't eat it :(

what about lab-grown MEAT meat? [it is a real thing, albeit experimental at this point]