NASA about to announce Existence of Aliens

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cyberdad
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18 Jul 2017, 9:50 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if so there is a good chance that such a civilization is but an echo from the 11 million year-ago past. I suspect that really advanced [k-scale 2 or more] space-faring civilizations do not use radio signals, or don't use them the way we do.

Yes of course the time taken to reach us would mean the little green men would have been long gone...



auntblabby
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18 Jul 2017, 9:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if so there is a good chance that such a civilization is but an echo from the 11 million year-ago past. I suspect that really advanced [k-scale 2 or more] space-faring civilizations do not use radio signals, or don't use them the way we do.

Yes of course the time taken to reach us would mean the little green men would have been long gone...

so far I've found only one radio astronomer who does what mebbe they should have been doing from the start, and exploring the ultra-low frequency realm. because, if they are warping space, it stands to reason that their radio communications also have been warped [highly compressed in space/time] along with the rest of the space between them and wherever they came from/are going to.



cyberdad
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18 Jul 2017, 10:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if so there is a good chance that such a civilization is but an echo from the 11 million year-ago past. I suspect that really advanced [k-scale 2 or more] space-faring civilizations do not use radio signals, or don't use them the way we do.

Yes of course the time taken to reach us would mean the little green men would have been long gone...

so far I've found only one radio astronomer who does what mebbe they should have been doing from the start, and exploring the ultra-low frequency realm. because, if they are warping space, it stands to reason that their radio communications also have been warped [highly compressed in space/time] along with the rest of the space between them and wherever they came from/are going to.

Why hasn't SETI done this?



auntblabby
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18 Jul 2017, 10:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if so there is a good chance that such a civilization is but an echo from the 11 million year-ago past. I suspect that really advanced [k-scale 2 or more] space-faring civilizations do not use radio signals, or don't use them the way we do.

Yes of course the time taken to reach us would mean the little green men would have been long gone...

so far I've found only one radio astronomer who does what mebbe they should have been doing from the start, and exploring the ultra-low frequency realm. because, if they are warping space, it stands to reason that their radio communications also have been warped [highly compressed in space/time] along with the rest of the space between them and wherever they came from/are going to.

Why hasn't SETI done this?

beats the dickens outta me. I think they are hidebound.



cyberdad
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18 Jul 2017, 10:25 pm

Guess it keeps Seth Shostak in a job



auntblabby
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18 Jul 2017, 10:28 pm

I guess it is hard to make somebody not believe in what keeps him employed. somebody else said it better but I can't remember who.



naturalplastic
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19 Jul 2017, 6:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
radio signals from a planet 11 million years away from earth could be from extraterrestrials
http://www.news.com.au/technology/scien ... fe63304fad


Umm.....no.

The star in question is not "11 million light years away".

Its 11 light years away.

Just eleven (no zeroes after the eleven).

So...

You get one dope slap for reading it wrong.

And you get a second dope slap for not realizing that you read it wrong: there are certain reasons that "eleven million" should have seemed incorrect.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The average distance between stars in the galaxy is about six light years. So "eleven light years away" is basically only "two doors down the hallway" in the galactic apartment. Close. Close like the article implies.



auntblabby
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19 Jul 2017, 8:59 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The average distance between stars in the galaxy is about six light years. So "eleven light years away" is basically only "two doors down the hallway" in the galactic apartment. Close. Close like the article implies.

relatively close, but for this primitive k-level-0 civilization we have, it might as well be in another dimension. until we can learn how to warp space, it will remain out of reach. chances are, our radio signals can't even reach that far out, at least in any feasibly intact and readable form, in terms of overcoming interstellar noise and/or the possible EM noise that other civilizations put out.



naturalplastic
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19 Jul 2017, 10:23 am

That's true.

We have been sending out radio signals since circa 1920, and sending out TV signals since circa 1945.

So our TV signals have gone out 72 average star distances. And radio out to almost a 100 average star distances.

But since its in every direction that means that our earliest TV shows have reached 7000 star systems. And our earliest radio broadcasts have reached over 20 thousand star systems.

But a recent study show that radio and TV waves get out of sync and loose all organization at around two light years out. So even if there were beings with radio receivers on a planet around the nearest star (Alpha Centauri) only 4.3 light years away all that they would pick up would be static. They would know that our planet had a civilization that was using radio, but they wouldn't be able to consume our programming, nor make any sense, nor get a specific information out of it.

As I understand it creatures with radio telescopes would have no trouble detecting our broadcasts within the distance that they have traveled. They just wouldn't be able to decipher the broadcasts.

The good news is that those little green people 70 plus light years away who are only just now getting Milton Berle's Westinghouse Hour are just getting static. So we have no need to be embarrassed as a species by our earliest TV shows.



auntblabby
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19 Jul 2017, 7:39 pm

I wonder if there are any civilizations that have sufficiently powerful broadcasts so that techy beings on planets further than 2 light years out can receive them and decode them?



cyberdad
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19 Jul 2017, 8:03 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
radio signals from a planet 11 million years away from earth could be from extraterrestrials
http://www.news.com.au/technology/scien ... fe63304fad


Umm.....no.

The star in question is not "11 million light years away".

Its 11 light years away.

Just eleven (no zeroes after the eleven).

So...

You get one dope slap for reading it wrong.

And you get a second dope slap for not realizing that you read it wrong: there are certain reasons that "eleven million" should have seemed incorrect.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The average distance between stars in the galaxy is about six light years. So "eleven light years away" is basically only "two doors down the hallway" in the galactic apartment. Close. Close like the article implies.


Ahhh I'm glad you shed some "light" on my mistake :wink:



cyberdad
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19 Jul 2017, 8:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The good news is that those little green people 70 plus light years away who are only just now getting Milton Berle's Westinghouse Hour are just getting static. So we have no need to be embarrassed as a species by our earliest TV shows.


Just wait till they get hold of Voyager



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20 Jul 2017, 1:42 am

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naturalplastic
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20 Jul 2017, 8:47 am

auntblabby wrote:
I wonder if there are any civilizations that have sufficiently powerful broadcasts so that techy beings on planets further than 2 light years out can receive them and decode them?


Not sure how that would work.

Laser light is essentially light waves marching in step like a body of soldiers (as opposed to normal light which is like a crowd of pedestrians wandering and strolling around out of any sync).

Radio is just a longer wavelength of light than visible light, and actually masers predated lasers (masers are microwave radiation with waves synchronized in the same way that they would later applied to visible light to create lasers, and ultraviolet light to make "Blu Rays".

It would take a super powerful transmitter, and it might also take a maser, or laser, type use of radio to keep the radio waves in sync. The aliens might beam a broadcast right at our star with laser-zed radio, or TV transmission. And it might stay undistorted enough for a long enough distance for us to decipher it . Or (if thei intent is to communicate)they could just send us something like morse code. Like just send beeps. And have the beeps come in sequences of say, the Fibronacci sequence of numbers to show intelligent intent.



auntblabby
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20 Jul 2017, 11:52 am

naturalplastic wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I wonder if there are any civilizations that have sufficiently powerful broadcasts so that techy beings on planets further than 2 light years out can receive them and decode them?

they could just send us something like morse code. Like just send beeps. And have the beeps come in sequences of say, the Fibronacci sequence of numbers to show intelligent intent.

being that nobody as yet has done that, it could be that the distances are too great, and the lifespan of intelligent techy civilizations is too short, for us to ever meet with present-day tech. I wonder If we have sent out morse code or Fibonacci or such to other places? seems our v-ger :alien: is the major thing we have sent out with the intent of communicating our humanity to anybody else in a way that gets past the power limits of our present tech.



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20 Jul 2017, 3:39 pm

Folks have proposed communications of that sort even prior to radio mass communication.

A French astronomer in the 18th or 19th Century suggested that we paint a big picture on the Sahara with planted vegetation in the shape of the squares and the triangles the size of U.S. states in that design that proves the Pythagorean Theorem ("the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the square of the other two sides") so that aliens would see it millions of miles away and know that a math literate species lives here.

And then there is that plaque they put on the Voyager craft with the two friendly humans waving, and all of the symbols on it that only recently zipped past the orbit of Pluto and into interstellar space after moving for decades.

But no, I am not aware of anyone on earth actually sending out a sequence of radio beeps in a coded pattern like that though things like that have probably been suggested.