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Sopho
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21 May 2007, 1:33 pm

I'm not starting this to annoy everyone or anything.
I just want to know, because I really can't understand it.
And apparently I need to put more effort into accepting other people's points of view.



Sopho
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21 May 2007, 2:14 pm

Well, this is good. I guess this means I don't have to piss around working out what the hell goes on in everyone's head then.
But you can't say I didn't try. 8)



Kosmonaut
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21 May 2007, 2:18 pm

i dont know, i think some are bred into the game :?



ascan
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21 May 2007, 3:00 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
i dont know, i think some are bred into the game :?

Partly true, I suspect. I think it's genetically controlled and related to natural selection. One reason humans are so successful is that they can cooperate within large groups. I suppose the most effective way to do that is to have a leader, and then followers. In real life I suppose you have a range from supplicant sheep, to bold aggressive dictator-types. Most are somewhere in between, and have enough sense to follow the herd, even if they don't "believe". Religion fits into that, somewhere, but I don't think it entirely explains it.



Sopho
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21 May 2007, 3:07 pm

So why do intelligent, sometimes good people turn to religion?



Kosmonaut
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21 May 2007, 3:11 pm

well there is Pascal's argument.
Pascals Bet

I may resort to it later in life. :D
Other than this, there is not much logic.

I dont know, it is a tough question.



Ypheus
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21 May 2007, 3:28 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
well there is Pascal's argument.
Pascals Bet


My thoughts exactly, While it is not likely that we will ever have proof that god exists, it is absolutely impossible to prove that god doesn't exist.



Awesomelyglorious
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21 May 2007, 3:36 pm

I think that a large part of the desire for religion is tied to the desire for higher meaning and foundations of an ethical system. They seek some religious force to give things meaning and to create reasons for how we should act in the world. It is not entirely rational on some level, but one cannot describe any action on some level as being purely rational as so much of it is based upon a premise that cannot be further pushed back. A higher power just is one of those premises that some within a society find more questionable than other more abstract ones such as "utility maximization is good", "stealing is wrong", etc. Logically though, we cannot discriminate well between basic directives.



Awesomelyglorious
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21 May 2007, 3:38 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
well there is Pascal's argument.
Pascals Bet

I am not sure. Many religious people actually condemn Pascal's Wager as being bad. I would bet that many would argue that by trying to get into heaven or whatever as your conscious goal that you push yourself further from it.



Sopho
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21 May 2007, 3:38 pm

But surely they're just deluding themselves? I don't see how it's possible for people to actually believe in a 'god' today.



Kosmonaut
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21 May 2007, 3:42 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Kosmonaut wrote:
well there is Pascal's argument.
Pascals Bet

I am not sure. Many religious people actually condemn Pascal's Wager as being bad. I would bet that many would argue that by trying to get into heaven or whatever as your conscious goal that you push yourself further from it.


Well these religious people say a lot of other crap too.



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21 May 2007, 3:58 pm

In the simple culture where I grew up such a question would be an insult. I know you mean well, but I see no reason to explain why I believe.

And Pascal's bet is b*llshit, it's not an excuse to believe in anything.



Awesomelyglorious
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21 May 2007, 4:06 pm

Sopho wrote:
But surely they're just deluding themselves? I don't see how it's possible for people to actually believe in a 'god' today.

Possibly, however, there is a lot of delusion. It is possible to believe in a god of some form today, it just depends on the nature of this deity in one's conceptualization.
Kosmonaut wrote:
Well these religious people say a lot of other crap too.
Well, a lot of people say a lot of crap, but we are talking about the people who honestly believe in something rather than those who want goodies for conforming to a societal norm or some meaningless answer, correct? I mean, the true believers are harder to deal with than the opportunists of some variant.



Kosmonaut
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21 May 2007, 4:08 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Kosmonaut wrote:
Well these religious people say a lot of other crap too.
Well, a lot of people say a lot of crap, but we are talking about the people who honestly believe in something rather than those who want goodies for conforming to a societal norm or some meaningless answer, correct? I mean, the true believers are harder to deal with than the opportunists of some variant.


You missed the point the first time?



Awesomelyglorious
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21 May 2007, 4:09 pm

Kosmonaut wrote:
You missed the point the first time?

I know that you argued it was not perfectly rational, however, there must be more explanation as to determine why even smart people become religious.