Would it be better a world without Religion?

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Would it be better a world without Religion?
Yes 54%  54%  [ 25 ]
No 37%  37%  [ 17 ]
I don't know 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 46

TheWonk
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23 May 2007, 4:25 pm

Anubis wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Gah, people follow religion because they cannot deal with the real world. If there was no religion, then the world would be a much better place.


Why?


Because religion blinds people, just like lying politicians. Secondly, religion is illogical. There is no proof for it, except a book which was made up over the years, by mortals, in most cases. At least half of it doesn't make sense. And there is nothing modern about it. People should think for themselves, and not have a religion think for them.


Religion is not supposed to be logical. There is more to life than logic. :wink:

One can also have religious beliefs or experiences without shutting off one's mind to reason. Not all religious people believe that every word of a certain book (Bible, Torah, Koran, etc...) is The Truth.



Sopho
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23 May 2007, 4:27 pm

A lot of religious people are a pain in the ass though.
If they didn't interfere in other people's lives, then I wouldn't give a toss about their weird beliefs.



jimservo
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23 May 2007, 10:11 pm

Individual religions have played a very important role in history (both positive and negative).

Quote:
“The default religion of human beings is the practice of human sacrifice. This pathological virus planted deep in the heart of the human species has been given insufficient attention by scholars. Virtually all primitive cultures and ancient civilizations engaged in it.” You state further, “Obviously, the foundation stone of Judaism is the injunction against human sacrifice, when God tells Abraham not to kill him a son out on highway 61. Superficially, Christianity may be seen as a resuscitation of the sacrificial motif, with the murder of the innocent Jesus, but in reality, this is clearly intended to convey the idea that when we murder innocence, we murder God. The crucifixion of Jesus is meant to be the last human sacrifice, with Jesus standing in for our own murdered innocence (and our own murderous selves).”


(source)

Of course, religion isn't going away in total any time soon, however on the conceptual level the question to be asked would be (not addressing the specific theological questions) the pros and cons of the effects of removing religion from society. I must admit that something that would concern me actually relates directly to this question. That is not to say that atheists or pagans are by default mass murderers, or any nonsense like that, but by removing the religiously encoded ethical rules that all that allowed the rise of for a new moral standard I do wonder if ultimately some of those standards could disappear. Part of my wonder in regards is the influences of the most murderous tyrants of the Twentieth century (those who viewed individual human beings, or certain humans are disposable), which were very much anti-traditional religion (or at least opposed to anything resembling the Judeo-Christian viewpoint).

An exception to this "rule" might be the incredibly horrible King Leopold II, who ruled the Belgian Free State as his personal fiefdom, who decimated what is now known as The Democratic Republic of the Congo. No doubt his racism and greed played a major part is his willingness to commit one of the greatest mass murders in human history.



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23 May 2007, 10:22 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:
I chose the path of logic that destroys humanity over the path of illogic that preserves humanity. :)

No, you actually don't, otherwise you would not have a basis for such a position, nor would you likely continue breathing due to the indeterminacy of the value of such a position on the importance of life. Life's importance is subjective, pain's importance is subjective, a lot of the values that drive us to action are subjective on some level. Some people hate life and some people love pain. We simply assume premises as true that do not have to necessarily be so.



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23 May 2007, 11:29 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
I chose the path of logic that destroys humanity over the path of illogic that preserves humanity. :)

No, you actually don't, otherwise you would not have a basis for such a position, nor would you likely continue breathing due to the indeterminacy of the value of such a position on the importance of life. Life's importance is subjective, pain's importance is subjective, a lot of the values that drive us to action are subjective on some level. Some people hate life and some people love pain. We simply assume premises as true that do not have to necessarily be so.


I was thinking more along the lines of genetic engineering of humanity to lay the ground work for my goal of building the Borg.



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23 May 2007, 11:30 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of genetic engineering of humanity to lay the ground work for my goal of building the Borg.

Ah yes, because going around assimilating species for no apparent reason seems infinitely logical.



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23 May 2007, 11:55 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of genetic engineering of humanity to lay the ground work for my goal of building the Borg.

Ah yes, because going around assimilating species for no apparent reason seems infinitely logical.


I need them to help gather all the available matter in the universe and get it as close to the original point of the Big Bang as possible so a massive computer known as "The Machine" can really answer all the mysteries of the universe.

Though my latest theory suggest its physically only possible to get fairly far from the true center point. Which means such a machine would be a massive hallow soccer ball shaped sphere that even when the multi-nodes are connected they may not beable to communicate with each other.

Which depending on the precise geometry of the universe and the distance for the center point means effectively the universe from an
informational technology standpoint is divided into a large number of parts that will never beable to pass all knowledge they gained from evolution to each other. Which sucks because depending on how great the number of uncommunicable parts is and the
ultimated processing needs of The Machine that could mean its physically impossible to build a machine big enough to reach any real conclusion about the nature of the universe.

Oh I'm glad my ideas are in no way nutty like religion :)



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26 May 2007, 2:38 pm

I think the world would be a better place without religion.

Look at the dark ages for example, a completely unstable period of history. Where human development was at a standstill, and was marked by warfare and a virtual disappearance of urban life. Then came the bloody crusades. The people that lived in this part of history where devotedly religious, they lived their whole lives in total faith of their religions. Their belief's perpetuated this instability.

Now look at today, the most underdeveloped and overpopulated parts of the world. People live in mud-brick homes with hardly any electricity or running water. These places usually contain very religious populations, they have belief's that god will make life better, god will take care of it. So they opt-out of taking responsibility for themselves.


Now look at the current presidency, George Bush Jr. He is a totally devote Methodist Christian. Fanatical even.
Here are some of Bush's Quotes which I thought were interesting:

"Freedom is on the march in this world. I believe everybody in the Middle East desires to live in freedom. I believe women in the Middle East want to live in a free society. I believe mothers and fathers want to raise their children in a free and peaceful world. I believe all these things, because freedom is not America's gift to the world, freedom is the almighty God's gift to each man and woman in this world."
--Speech in Pennsylvania, October 22, 2004


Wow, looks like he is trying to justify invading the middle-east, i.e. Muslims, "freedom is the almighty God's gift..." Seems like a f*****g CRUSADE to me. Bush is just as fanatical as Osama Bin Laden.

"I believe that God wants me to be president."
--According to Richard Land, as quoted in ""Understanding the President and his
God"



I don't even want to get into just how fanatical some Muslims are, I think that is apparent to everyone.

Religion and faith also fuels irrational, emotion-based thoughts and actions. Which is exactly how animals behave. Religion provides a perfect scapegoat from burdensome logical thinking. It's so much easier to accept or come to conclusion about a problem using faith than to think it through yourself.
Here is my favorite quote, Dan Barker puts it into better words than I could:
"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits."
- Dan Barker


Now I won't deny that religion does do good things and helps people, it does. There are a lot of religious organizations helping people. However I think it is just an effective way of spreading there religion to others to 'recruit'. To show people that they are good, peaceful, and benefit humanity, it makes people warm and fuzzy inside. They also preach that their religion is the 'right' religion and others are 'wrong'.

That's why you hear about beneficial religious organizations so much, they advertise constantly, to spread their word. While beneficial non-religious organizations focus on helping than advertising.


I think every human has the capacity to care and help others with out any religion, we don't need religion.



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26 May 2007, 4:30 pm

Somehow I think if there was no religion people would find something else to fight and go to war about It seems to be human nature. I don't know if it would be better just different.


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Sopho
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26 May 2007, 4:31 pm

I'd rather be at war over something that exists than something that doesn't.



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26 May 2007, 4:34 pm

Be patient. The Antichrist will be here soon.



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26 May 2007, 4:35 pm

I'd rather not go at all :!:
I am not a religious person at all and feel it has caused a lot of problems, I just feel there would just be something else to do it.


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26 May 2007, 5:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Be patient. The Antichrist will be here soon.

George W. Bush is already here, isn't he?



Sopho
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26 May 2007, 5:23 pm

George Bush is an as*hole.
George Bush sucks.
George Bush is stupid.
George Bush is ugly.
George Bush is Christian.



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26 May 2007, 5:47 pm

Sopho wrote:
George Bush is an as*hole.
George Bush sucks.
George Bush is stupid.
George Bush is ugly.
George Bush is Christian.


He's not my president. I disagree with him on so many things... Don't get me started.



Sopho
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26 May 2007, 5:49 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
George Bush is an as*hole.
George Bush sucks.
George Bush is stupid.
George Bush is ugly.
George Bush is Christian.


He's not my president. I disagree with him on so many things... Don't get me started.

I can't think of anything I actually agree with him on.