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What species are you?
Homo sapien 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
Homo sapien 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
Homo neanderthalis 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Homo neanderthalis 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Homo erectus 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Homo erectus 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Homo what-the-hellus-are-you-talking-aboutus 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Homo what-the-hellus-are-you-talking-aboutus 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
None of the above. I never branched from the Ape Family 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
None of the above. I never branched from the Ape Family 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 30

Sophist
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12 Jun 2005, 3:15 am

Many of you might have already heard about this latest BIG paleoanthropological find. But I post it here anyways.

Scientists Find Prehistoric Dwarf Skeleton
By: JOSEPH B. VERRENGIA - News
October 27, 2004 12:15 pm ET

In a breathtaking discovery, scientists working on a remote Indonesian island say they have uncovered the bones of a human dwarf species marooned for eons while modern man rapidly colonized the rest of the planet.

One tiny specimen, an adult female measuring about 3 feet tall, is described as "the most extreme" figure to be included in the extended human family. Certainly, she is the shortest.

This hobbit-sized creature appears to have lived as recently as 18,000 years ago on the island of Flores, a kind of tropical Lost World populated by giant lizards and miniature elephants.

She is the best example of a trove of fragmented bones that account for as many as seven of these primitive individuals. Scientists have named the new species Homo floresiensis, or Flores Man. The specimens' ages range from 95,000 to 12,000 years old.

The discovery has astonished anthropologists unlike any in recent memory. Flores Man is a totally new creature that was fundamentally different from modern humans. Yet it lived until the threshold of recorded human history, probably crossing paths with the ancestors of today's islanders.

"This finding really does rewrite our knowledge of human evolution," said Chris Stringer, who directs human origins studies at the Natural History Museum in London. "And to have them present less than 20,000 years ago is frankly astonishing."

Flores Man was hardly formidable. His grapefruit-sized brain was about a quarter the size of the brain of our species, Homo sapiens. It is closer in size to the brains of transitional prehuman species in Africa more than 3 million years ago.

Yet evidence suggests Flores Man made stone tools, lit fires and organized group hunts for meat.

Just how this primitive, remnant species managed to hang on is unclear. Geologic evidence suggests a massive volcanic eruption sealed its fate some 12,000 years ago, along with other unusual species on the island.

Still, researchers say the perseverance of Flores Man smashes the conventional wisdom that modern humans began to systematically crowd out other upright-walking species 160,000 years ago and have dominated the planet alone for tens of thousands of years.

And it demonstrates that Africa, the acknowledged cradle of humanity, does not hold all the answers to persistent questions of how — and where — we came to be.

"It is arguably the most significant discovery concerning our own genus in my lifetime," said anthropologist Bernard Wood of George Washington University, who reviewed the research independently.

Discoveries simply "don't get any better than that," proclaimed Robert Foley and Marta Mirazon Lahr of Cambridge University in a written analysis.

To others, the specimen's baffling combination of slight dimensions and coarse features bears almost no meaningful resemblance either to modern humans or to our large, archaic cousins.

They suggest that Flores Man doesn't belong in the genus Homo at all, even if it was a recent contemporary. But they are unsure how to classify the species.

"I don't think anybody can pigeonhole this into the very simple-minded theories of what is human," anthropologist Jeffery Schwartz of the University of Pittsburgh. "There is no biological reason to call it Homo. We have to rethink what it is."

Details of the discovery appear in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature.

Researchers from Australia and Indonesia found the partial skeleton 13 months ago in a shallow limestone cave known as Liang Bua. The cave, which extends into a hillside for about 130 feet, has been the subject of scientific analysis since 1964.

The female skeleton and fragments from the six other individuals are being stored in a laboratory in Jakarta, Indonesia. The cave, which now is surrounded by coffee farms, is fenced off and patrolled by guards.

Near the skeleton were stone tools and animal remains, including teeth from a young stegodon, or prehistoric dwarf elephant, as well as fish, birds and rodents. Some of the bones were charred, suggesting they were cooked.

Excavations are continuing. In 1998, stone tools and other evidence found on Flores suggested the presence 900,000 years ago of another early human, Homo erectus. The tools were found a century after the celebrated discovery in the 1890s of big-boned H. erectus fossils in eastern Java.

Now, researchers suggest H. erectus spread to remote Flores and throughout the region, perhaps on bamboo rafts. Caves on surrounding islands are the target of future studies, they said.

Researchers suspect that Flores Man probably is an H. erectus descendant that was squeezed by evolutionary pressures.

Nature is full of mammals — deer, squirrels and pigs, for example — living in marginal, isolated environments that gradually dwarf when food isn't plentiful and predators aren't threatening.

On Flores, the Komodo dragon and other large meat-eating lizards prowled. But Flores Man didn't have to worry about violent human neighbors.

This is the first time that the evolution of dwarfism has been recorded in a human relative, said the study's lead author, Peter Brown of the University of New England in Australia.

Scientists are still struggling to identify its jumbled features.

Many say its face and skull features show sufficient traits to be included in the Homo family that includes modern humans. It would be the eighth species in the Homo category.

George Washington's Wood, for example, finds it "convincing."

Others aren't sure.

For example, they say the skull is wide like H. erectus. But the sides are rounder and the crown traces an arc from ear to ear. The skull of H. erectus has steeper sides and a pointed crown, they said.

The lower jaw contains large, blunt teeth and roots like Australopithecus, a prehuman ancestor in Africa more than 3 million years ago. The front teeth are smaller than modern human teeth.

The eye sockets are big and round, but they don't carry a prominent browline.

The shinbone in the leg shares similarities with apes.

"I've spent a sleepless night trying to figure out what to do with this thing," said Schwartz. "It makes me think of nothing else in this world."



http://www.esimpletech.com/origins/news ... ews_id=205


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Sean
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12 Jun 2005, 3:31 am

I saw something about that on PBS fairly recently. They said that there was a geoligist that claimed to see someone/thing that looked like that walk past him on a trail about 30 years ago. His claim was unsubstantiated. Local legends suggest that they were probably alive as little as 270 years ago if not still living hidden somewhere today.

Once I also heard that British Naval oficers reported contacting what they called a "subhuman race" on Tasmania shortly after it's discovery. If any of this is true, they went extinct shortly after. Maybe the British gave them blankets as a "peace offering" too like they did with the American Indians? :roll:



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12 Jun 2005, 3:44 am

Ooh, you mean the Small Pox blankets??? LOL

Yeah, they had something on Dateline I think about The Hobbit as they are now lovingly called. The natives of the Flores island have stories about the little people. They said they were fairly aggressive and were rumoured to have carried off small children from the villages for food back up into their mountain dwellings. YUM

Image


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12 Jun 2005, 4:55 am

I am not a pre-historic expert. What
about the Web-a-phibeous, or the
ghost-a-saphiens. Hmmmm?
Their is serious injustice out there.

But seriously, I am of two minds
on evolution theories. So any facts
have equal validity. Hmmmmm?
Who knows what theory they will
come up in another 10 years?

Just stating my opinion,
Ghosthunter



Sanityisoverrated
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12 Jun 2005, 7:08 am

Sean wrote:
Once I also heard that British Naval oficers reported contacting what they called a "subhuman race" on Tasmania shortly after it's discovery. If any of this is true, they went extinct shortly after.


No, I believe they're still there. :P



Feste-Fenris
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12 Jun 2005, 8:46 am

This is VERY interesting...



ElfMan
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12 Jun 2005, 9:28 am

Why it just not a pygmy?

:?


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pizzaboss
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12 Jun 2005, 10:36 am

Very interesting, thanks!



Malcolm_Scipo
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12 Jun 2005, 12:19 pm

Stupid child eating hobbits. Wacko Jacko is exposed to be the main boogeyman! They are putting him out of work.


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12 Jun 2005, 1:23 pm

I agree with Elfman's short comment. There is no good reason to classify it as a seperate species, and no reason it couldn't be merely another race of modern homo sapiens man. All wolves, domestic dogs, dingos and some other wild dogs are a single species, great physical variation is possible with very little genetic variation.

Some of you may wish to take my thoughts 'with a grain of salt' as I am a creationist, by my own research and not just by blind faith, and I strongly disagree with macro-evolutionists.



spacemonkey
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12 Jun 2005, 4:36 pm

This was a feature story in National Geographic recently. Very interesting.
Here is a link I found
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ensis.html



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12 Jun 2005, 9:29 pm

In response to ElfMan and Tim_p, it is my understanding that there are certain features (particularly about Homo floresiensis' skull characteristics) which point towards it not being a variation of a Homo sapien but rather a different species. Mostly it has to do with the skull cavity and its ratio to the body size. In short, the skull cavity is much smaller than would be expected. Which is why anthropologists are rather baffled. Some have conjectured (before more skeletal remains were found) that The Hobbit was merely a Homo habilis, I believe, who was afflicted with some sort of disease which rendered her the size she was. However, now that about another six skeletons have been found in the same location, that hypothesis is looking less and less likely.

I know there are many paleoanthropologists who like to try and label every single difference amongst hominids as a completely new species. And there are also many other paleoanthropologists who do not like that this happens. For instance, some suspect that Homo ergaster is merely an earlier version of Homo erectus, while other scientists wish to place them as two completely different species-- adding too many tiny twigs, some feel, to the family tree.

But I think there are many valid times to differentiate between what appears to be two different species. I believe, imho strictly as a non-professional, that Homo floresiensis is one of these times; take it as you will.

Being that NO ONE alive today was alive back then, no matter WHAT one believes in, there is no way to prove it one way or another. We can only conjecture as to the facts. However, according to the information brought forth, I have no reason to doubt the validity that this Homo floresiensis is a cousin of ours having perhaps come off the H. heidelbergensis or H. antecessor line and branching, as did we. Similar to how Homo neanderthalis is often classified (for those paleoanthropologists who feel that Homo sapiens did not interbreed with the Neanderthals that is).


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12 Jun 2005, 9:34 pm

I also find it fascinating that most paleoanthropologists agree that humans' defining feature is not our brain/intelligence at all, but rather our bipedalism. Seeing as how, according to theory, that is what developed first.


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13 Jun 2005, 12:44 am

At least those murderous hobbits cannot eat our children anymore. BUt that is quite interesting though with the size of their brain.


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I WOKE UP AND THEN I REALISED,
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AND THEN I CRIED.


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13 Jun 2005, 5:37 am

I am Homo Aspergersis.



ElfMan
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13 Jun 2005, 6:34 am

hmmm Sophist thanks for responce. I think I know what you talking about and then again, I think I not know what you talking about....
oh dear...
homo what? Maybe I am a homoelfian although I think it is ressesive.


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