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Ladies and gentlemen, our 51st state!

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Tim_Tex
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11 Jun 2017, 7:22 pm

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/amid-historically-low-turnout-puerto-ricans-vote-statehood-n770801


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Fogman
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11 Jun 2017, 7:54 pm

Maybe, but it still has to pass republican dominated house and senate. Also because of the low voter turnout for this particular vote it could be argued that the vote is not representative for the people of Puerto Rico. --I see it as frught with problems considering the fact that not only was there a low voter turnout, there was also no option for PR to remain a commonwealth territory.


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Jacoby
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11 Jun 2017, 10:07 pm

Only 23% turnout with a loaded ballot question, it's not a legitimate referendum. The majority of Puerto Ricans still do not want statehood, more want to continue their current status or would rather become independent or be in free association.

I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.



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11 Jun 2017, 10:16 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Only 23% turnout with a loaded ballot question, it's not a legitimate referendum. The majority of Puerto Ricans still do not want statehood, more want to continue their current status or would rather become independent or be in free association.

I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


If they're American citizens, then they're Americans.


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Jacoby
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11 Jun 2017, 10:31 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Only 23% turnout with a loaded ballot question, it's not a legitimate referendum. The majority of Puerto Ricans still do not want statehood, more want to continue their current status or would rather become independent or be in free association.

I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


If they're American citizens, then they're Americans.


No one will deny that they are American citizens or is advocating they be stripped of that but most Puerto Ricans consider Puerto Rican as distinct culture and nationality separate from the United States. They like the benefits they get from the relationship they have with the US currently and don't want to give up what makes them unique. 23% is not a representative turnout, the statehood supporters in Puerto Rico have had to resort to all sorts of ballot trickery to try to get it to pass and those that oppose it usually protest it in some way. For comparison, almost 200k fewer people voted in this referendum than they did in the first referendum back in 1967.

It should be a simple yes/no question, should Puerto Rico become a state? If it fails then it fails and they can finally move on from the issue of their status, if they want to become independent or be in free association with the US then they should vote again with a very simple question.



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12 Jun 2017, 12:36 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Only 23% turnout with a loaded ballot question, it's not a legitimate referendum. The majority of Puerto Ricans still do not want statehood, more want to continue their current status or would rather become independent or be in free association.

I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


If they're American citizens, then they're Americans.


No one will deny that they are American citizens or is advocating they be stripped of that but most Puerto Ricans consider Puerto Rican as distinct culture and nationality separate from the United States. They like the benefits they get from the relationship they have with the US currently and don't want to give up what makes them unique. 23% is not a representative turnout, the statehood supporters in Puerto Rico have had to resort to all sorts of ballot trickery to try to get it to pass and those that oppose it usually protest it in some way. For comparison, almost 200k fewer people voted in this referendum than they did in the first referendum back in 1967.

It should be a simple yes/no question, should Puerto Rico become a state? If it fails then it fails and they can finally move on from the issue of their status, if they want to become independent or be in free association with the US then they should vote again with a very simple question.


It can be argued that Native Americans and Cajuns have their own unique cultural identities, but they are still Americans. I see no reason why the same consideration shouldn't be extended to Puerto Ricans.


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Jacoby
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12 Jun 2017, 12:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Only 23% turnout with a loaded ballot question, it's not a legitimate referendum. The majority of Puerto Ricans still do not want statehood, more want to continue their current status or would rather become independent or be in free association.

I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


If they're American citizens, then they're Americans.


No one will deny that they are American citizens or is advocating they be stripped of that but most Puerto Ricans consider Puerto Rican as distinct culture and nationality separate from the United States. They like the benefits they get from the relationship they have with the US currently and don't want to give up what makes them unique. 23% is not a representative turnout, the statehood supporters in Puerto Rico have had to resort to all sorts of ballot trickery to try to get it to pass and those that oppose it usually protest it in some way. For comparison, almost 200k fewer people voted in this referendum than they did in the first referendum back in 1967.

It should be a simple yes/no question, should Puerto Rico become a state? If it fails then it fails and they can finally move on from the issue of their status, if they want to become independent or be in free association with the US then they should vote again with a very simple question.


It can be argued that Native Americans and Cajuns have their own unique cultural identities, but they are still Americans. I see no reason why the same consideration shouldn't be extended to Puerto Ricans.


The consideration has been extended numerous times and continues to be, it just has never actually passed. I would say Natives and Cajuns have seen their cultures eroded and lost quite a bit.



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12 Jun 2017, 1:01 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
It can be argued that Native Americans and Cajuns have their own unique cultural identities, but they are still Americans. I see no reason why the same consideration shouldn't be extended to Puerto Ricans.


I was thinking of Hawaiians. Their culture is pretty dominant on the islands. People visit there to observe it and participate in it. Lies, luaus, hula dancing, the whole 9 yards.



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12 Jun 2017, 10:13 am

Hawaiians have their culture----but they are quite assimilated into American culture, too.



kraftiekortie
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12 Jun 2017, 10:16 am

Puerto Rico will not become our 51st state this year.

As stated above, only 23% of the eligible voting population voted. And there was a boycott by the folks who want to keep Puerto Rico a Commonwealth. The results will probably not be deemed legitimate.

Moreover, Congress has to approve its entry into Statehood. It has been stated that this is doubtful owing to the economic situation there.



Tim_Tex
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12 Jun 2017, 10:50 am

I probably would have voted for independence


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12 Jun 2017, 9:11 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


How about returning Arizona to Mexico, then?



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cyberdad
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13 Jun 2017, 3:28 am

Jacoby wrote:
The consideration has been extended numerous times and continues to be, it just has never actually passed. I would say Natives and Cajuns have seen their cultures eroded and lost quite a bit.


A sentiment shared by the Native American survivors in Arizona



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13 Jun 2017, 7:27 am

StinkyDog wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I can't see any benefit to making them a state, Puerto Ricans are a nationality of their own imo even tho they are American citizens and that would have to end if they became a state which I don't think they want to do. Not to mention they're almost twice as poor as Mississippi and are deeply in debt, no arguable benefit.


How about returning Arizona to Mexico, then?



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jrjones9933
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13 Jun 2017, 10:18 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It can be argued that Native Americans and Cajuns have their own unique cultural identities, but they are still Americans. I see no reason why the same consideration shouldn't be extended to Puerto Ricans.


I was thinking of Hawaiians. Their culture is pretty dominant on the islands. People visit there to observe it and participate in it. Lies, luaus, hula dancing, the whole 9 yards.

Some data, to demonstrate that as usual, there is no factual basis for your claim.
https://sites.ed.gov/aapi/data-and-statistics/
Quote:
The Census Bureau reported that 17.6% of the NHOPI [Native Hawaiian Or Pacific Islander] community lived below poverty, compared to a national poverty rate of 11.7% for Asians and 11.6% for Whites in their 2007-2011 American Community Survey.


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13 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The consideration has been extended numerous times and continues to be, it just has never actually passed. I would say Natives and Cajuns have seen their cultures eroded and lost quite a bit.

cyberdad wrote:
A sentiment shared by the Native American survivors in Arizona

I don't understand why people are aligned, politically, with whichever superpower, when they already have all the resources, necessary, to be self-sufficient.

If I was in that situation, and engaged in politics and diplomacy, I would want to be recognized as an autonomous nation.