17 Aug 2017, 3:14 pm
17 Aug 2017, 6:34 pm
Welp, looks like I'm going to have to post my response in sections to the same post because it keeps thinking I'm trying to spam the site since I'm posting so much text. 
TUAndrew wrote:
No need to feel silly, I know that this is already a complicated subject at the best of times. 
Yeah, that’s certainly true.
Quote:
So, you’re concerned about people twisting autism to be what it isn’t, basically. I suppose you could compare this to what’s happening in the asexual community. The definition of asexual is someone who doesn’t feel any sexual attraction, however there are individuals out there who claim to be “asexual yet have a high sex drive”, which in itself is highly contradictory. You can’t be asexual (someone who doesn’t feel sexual attraction) and have a high sex drive. The two terms just don’t fit together. 
Some people view it as a spectrum, and that demisexuality should be classed under asexuality. However, others disagree pointing out that demisexuality (only feeling sexually attracted to someone you know/ have been in a relationship for a while with) would probably fall under normal hetero/homo/bisexuality. Then there’s the whole debate over whether emotional attraction and sexual attraction can be separate, ect.
Some people view it as a spectrum, and that demisexuality should be classed under asexuality. However, others disagree pointing out that demisexuality (only feeling sexually attracted to someone you know/ have been in a relationship for a while with) would probably fall under normal hetero/homo/bisexuality. Then there’s the whole debate over whether emotional attraction and sexual attraction can be separate, ect.
TUAndrew wrote:
Yes, it's a lot like that. They may be well-intentioned but when looking into the details of it it's actually quite invalidating and dismissive of what asexuality really is. It's like when people say "well everyone has a bit of Autism in them", when what they really mean is introvertedness.
Similar to how some people say that “Everyone is a little bit bi”. When they say that, they usually mean “Everyone can tell when someone is attractive, even if it’s someone of a non-preferred gender”. Yes, that’s true- I can tell when a guy looks dapper because I’m gay not blind.
But not everyone is bi. To me, a bisexual person is someone who is capable of holding a loving relationship with either gender, and by that definition- no, not everyone is bi.
I used to try so hard to force myself to be straight, I even tried to be in heterosexual relationships because I had a lot of internalised hatred going on and I desperately wanted to fit in. So, I do believe that some people are just simply monosexual (only attracted to one gender).
Personally, I think it’s important to point out that not everyone is bi, because the problem with labelling everyone as bi is that it ignores the unique issues that bisexual individuals deal with (such as potential rejection from not only the straight community, but also the gay community).
Quote:
I’ll admit I was somewhat judgemental and hesitant to reply to your post when I saw the abbreviation “SJW” since often times when I see that term being used, it’s often to throw the whole of the LGBT movement under the bus, since some people can’t seem to separate the extremists from people who are more moderate.
TUAndrew wrote:
Indeed, I feel hesitant to use that term myself. I could say 'safe space culture' but that still sounds as if I'm talking about anyone and everyone who uses safe spaces rather than those who abuse safe spaces to further their segregation politics. The problem is that the "SJWs" don't actually have a name for themselves, which means that we're left with little alternative than to use that term which is unfortunately co-opted by right-wing homophobes.
I guess the reason for them not having a name is that they expect to speak for the entire autism community, and thus they will just see their political movement as 'autistic' or 'anti-ableist' rather than the recent, university-born thing that they are in the wider autism community.
Edit: 'ctrl-left' is a better name. It means essentially the same thing as SJW except that it has more balanced origins rather than being a tool of the far right.
I guess the reason for them not having a name is that they expect to speak for the entire autism community, and thus they will just see their political movement as 'autistic' or 'anti-ableist' rather than the recent, university-born thing that they are in the wider autism community.
Edit: 'ctrl-left' is a better name. It means essentially the same thing as SJW except that it has more balanced origins rather than being a tool of the far right.
Usually I just call these people extremists. In the gay community, there are extreme individuals who call themselves “queer radicals” and these people are usually the ones who back things like “the gay shame movement”. Put simply, the “gay shame” movement was born as a backlash to the “gay pride” movement. Basically, people part of the gay shame movement didn’t want pride parades, and they don’t want marriage because they view marriage as something that it too hetero-normative (essentially trying to preserve gay culture by keeping us more separate from the straight community).
Although, it should be noted that some people call themselves queer but aren’t radicals. Queer can just simply mean “not straight” but there are connotations to it, for instance- when people identify as queer they are often assumed to be bisexual since it’s fairly uncommon for exclusively monosexual individuals to label themselves queer, but it does happen. I would not consider myself a “queer radical” at all, and I support same-sex marriage.
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I see a similar argument when people ask “How can you identify with being gay, when it’s simply something you are? It’s not like you had a choice in the matter”, and yeah- that’s correct. I never chose to be gay, I didn’t wake up one day and think “Huh, maybe I should be gay now”, despite what some people might think.
In theory, being gay should be like having brown eyes, just one trait of many that an individual might possess. But the main difference between the two is that people don’t get disowned for having brown eyes, psychologically tortured, or thrown in jail and/ or killed. At least, not usually anyway. Many people around the world go through such treatment for being gay.
In theory, being gay should be like having brown eyes, just one trait of many that an individual might possess. But the main difference between the two is that people don’t get disowned for having brown eyes, psychologically tortured, or thrown in jail and/ or killed. At least, not usually anyway. Many people around the world go through such treatment for being gay.
TUAndrew wrote:
Do you mean that gay people identify as a way of showing pride?
For the most part, yes. Although, not always. I’ve known some lesbians say that they identify/prefer to call themselves gay because they don’t like some of the connotations that come with the word lesbian. (Which makes sense, compare the suggestions “gay” and “lesbian” come up with, when I searched for “lesbian” it would suggest “lesbian jokes” and “porn” whereas with “gay” it came up with “gay support services”).
Also, you don’t hear many people saying that “I’m a gay” but you sometimes hear “I’m a lesbian”, with “I’m gay” it reads more like a simple fact, like “I’m left handed” would, but with the second it can come across as “I am this thing” almost as if “I’m one of those people”, and some people don’t like that.
TUAndrew wrote:
At least in my experience 'identification' is more common to be said by trans people rather than gay people, though I still believe what you say. A trans member of this forum could explain what identification truly means to them as a trans person; and that's exactly the point, they are speaking about what a word means for the trans community.
Being trans isn't the same as being autistic, and thus the same politics and words don't always work in the same way. You can be trans and autistic, but they are still two different things. The safe space culture instead takes a 'once size fits all' approach without thinking of the details that might entail.
Being trans isn't the same as being autistic, and thus the same politics and words don't always work in the same way. You can be trans and autistic, but they are still two different things. The safe space culture instead takes a 'once size fits all' approach without thinking of the details that might entail.
That is true, and I’m inclined to agree with you. Of course, LGBT issues and autism issues are clearly very different (although yes, individuals can be both) and should be treated as such.
TUAndrew wrote:
I'd recommend that you try to work with your disability support group as much as possible, as once you leave education it can be significantly harder to obtain a diagnosis.
I see your frustration, the feeling that you could be treated like a failure when you weren't given the help that you could have gotten.
It can be a complicated issue; it's right that people treat their suspicions as a provisional diagnosis, yet at the same time we shouldn't treat non-diagnosed people as 2nd-class aspies as there can be a lot of reasons why someone hasn't got a diagnosis, many of which could not be their fault; such as a lack of local funding for diagnosis professionals, poor autistic awareness in their region and people mistakenly treating a girl as NT because they think that autism is a 'guy thing' despite the fact that one of the most famous aspies (Temple Grandin) is female.
I see your frustration, the feeling that you could be treated like a failure when you weren't given the help that you could have gotten.
It can be a complicated issue; it's right that people treat their suspicions as a provisional diagnosis, yet at the same time we shouldn't treat non-diagnosed people as 2nd-class aspies as there can be a lot of reasons why someone hasn't got a diagnosis, many of which could not be their fault; such as a lack of local funding for diagnosis professionals, poor autistic awareness in their region and people mistakenly treating a girl as NT because they think that autism is a 'guy thing' despite the fact that one of the most famous aspies (Temple Grandin) is female.
I’m all too aware that getting a diagnosis outside of education would be difficult, that’s why I’m trying to push for a diagnosis now. Luckily, I have found out recently that I have an unconditional offer with my University (So even if I don’t get ideal results back for my English language and maths GCSEs, I will still have a placement at University).
They’ll be assessing my situation (if they decide that my course has a substantial amount of maths involved, then they can offer free testing, however- my course doesn’t have much maths involved, hardly surprising
, so it looks like I’ll have to pay for testing services, but luckily the University is willing to refer me to such services so all I’d have to do is convince my parents to pay said fees). Testing usually costs around £300 to £500 apparently, but that’s nothing compared to student payments and ect.XenoMind wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
But really, I wished I’d been tested when I was still in school, maybe I could’ve received more help that way. I spent four months revising for my maths exam, and this was at a point where I was doing three maths lessons in a row every week, but I still managed to fail. I hated it when some teachers would suggest that I “just don’t try hard enough”, that’s all I do! I push myself to achieve because I know I have a weak spot in maths.
I remember that feeling. You're pushing it too much, and probably doing it in the wrong way.
Yeah, you’re probably right. It’s hard not to though. At least I have a place at University, regardless of what happens.
Phew, I believe that's it.
18 Aug 2017, 7:46 am
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