Define PC and SJW!
08 Jul 2017, 2:42 pm
adifferentname wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
adifferentname, if I can already tell from what I have seen of Sargon that he's not the sort of person that's going to be able to persuade me of anything why should I waste my time viewing his videos in detail?
This is good. You're asking questions now rather than making unqualified statements about his character.
First of all, I don't believe it would be a waste of your time. That premise is yet another shortcut and something of a flimsy self-justification. I'm of the opinion that you're not familiar enough with his arguments to judge whether or not he's a waste of your time, thus rendering this whole line of thought circular. You're effectively saying that you're not familiar because you've taken a shortcut based on initial impressions, therefore you shouldn't become familiar because not using your shortcut would inconvenience your snap judgement. It's self-defeating.
Secondly, you took the time to state your opinion of who and what Sargon is, despite later admitting you're almost entirely ignorant of his body of work on youtube. You effectively presented yourself as an authority on a subject about which you know virtually nothing. If you wish to actually speak with some authority on a subject, I suggest it's necessary to be in possession of at least a modicum of the facts.
Thirdly, as suggested by techstep, if you're ideologically opposed to Sargon then it's in your best interests to be able to convince other people why they should agree with your ideology rather than his. He's clearly got a great deal more reach than either of us has, but his platform is not unassailable. A better question would be "why should I waste my time listening to people I mostly agree with?", because you're sure as shizzle not going to get anything out of that other than the warm, fuzzy glow of confirmation bias.
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Why not find someone else with a similar argument that makes it in a way that I might actually find persuasive and challenging to my own perspective, and consider that fully instead?
You didn't present arguments against someone else. You presented your arguments against Sargon. I have no vested interest in you adopting his ideological positions, but I do have a vested interest in you understanding my own - which you presently appear not to.
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I can't spell out to you in detail what it is about Sargon that makes me find him not persuasive, that's just not how my mind works.
I suggest you might find it easier if you had a grasp of his position on, well, anything.
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I notice small things and it forms an impression, and it's the overall impression that I am consciously aware of, the small things mostly remain subconscious; I rely on these impressions because I am an observant person and experience has taught me that my impressions can be statistically relied upon. You would probably call this bias, but I consider it a process I have developed that allows me to select informative and persuasive sources of information that also experience has shown me I can rely upon.
I'd call that justification in defence of bias, based on observations to date. I'm entirely willing to re-evaluate should new data contradict the existing evidence.
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It is a shortcut, I do admit that, but it is an effective one that gets me access to the best sources of information with which to challenge my perceptions and to learn from. This selectivity and prejudgment is just necessary or I would be perpetually drowning in a sea of questionable information and opinions.
All information and opinions should be questioned, especially those which are preconceived. You're presenting a rhetorical argument which casts you as the victim of information overload, but I'm unwilling to accept that you're so fragile as to be unable to psychologically withstand the controlled bombardment of information available via your computer screen and speakers when you click play on a youtube video.
You are wasting your time. There have been other suggestions, and I am exploring those (I watched a couple of tl;dr's yesterday, today I will have a look at Sam Harris.) I'm not going to watch any more Sargon. Just accept that you can't make me and let it go.
08 Jul 2017, 2:59 pm
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
You are wasting your time.
Were you the only other person privy to this exchange, that might be true.
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There have been other suggestions, and I am exploring those (I watched a couple of tl;dr's yesterday, today I will have a look at Sam Harris.)
I look forward to reading your mischaracterisations of both.
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I'm not going to watch any more Sargon. Just accept that you can't make me and let it go.
Kindly point out where I suggested I could make you do anything or where I intimated the desire to do so. I'm not interested in becoming a complicit part of a self-suppressing victim narrative, thanks all the same.
jrjones9933
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08 Jul 2017, 3:13 pm
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Aha! I've found Sargon's bigotry!
He's interviewing Majid Nawaz, a muslim whose on the Southern Poverty Law Center list as an anti-muslim extremist!
https://www.splcenter.org/20161025/jour ... ists#nawaz
He's interviewing Majid Nawaz, a muslim whose on the Southern Poverty Law Center list as an anti-muslim extremist!
https://www.splcenter.org/20161025/jour ... ists#nawaz
That sounds like an interesting lawsuit. Neither man sounded extreme during the conversation. I enjoyed hearing more about Tommy Robinson. If Majid maintains that attitude going forward, it sounds like a winning argument. He wants a seat at the table, and nothing he said in the interview merits censorship. I'd like to hear the feminist Muslims and ex-Muslims whom he recommends. He got in trouble with the SPLC in one case for coming to the defense of a colleague. They may not be as ready for prime-time.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
08 Jul 2017, 3:39 pm
adifferentname wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
You are wasting your time.
Were you the only other person privy to this exchange, that might be true.
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There have been other suggestions, and I am exploring those (I watched a couple of tl;dr's yesterday, today I will have a look at Sam Harris.)
I look forward to reading your mischaracterisations of both.
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I'm not going to watch any more Sargon. Just accept that you can't make me and let it go.
Kindly point out where I suggested I could make you do anything or where I intimated the desire to do so. I'm not interested in becoming a complicit part of a self-suppressing victim narrative, thanks all the same.
I plan on keeping my impressions to myself, and won't be posting or reading in this thread any further. Discussion with you is unproductive and unpleasant. I will take the advice of others in this thread under advisement, but will discard everything from you.
08 Jul 2017, 5:56 pm
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I plan on keeping my impressions to myself, and won't be posting or reading in this thread any further. Discussion with you is unproductive and unpleasant. I will take the advice of others in this thread under advisement, but will discard everything from you.
Perhaps if you made an attempt to actually address the points being made and refrain from constructing straw-motivations you'd find the discussion more productive. As for "unpleasant", I'm not responsible for your feelings. If you don't like your opinions being criticised, a good starting point would be not to engage in lazy character assassination of people about whom you, by your own admission, know nothing.
08 Jul 2017, 6:56 pm
adifferentname wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
I plan on keeping my impressions to myself, and won't be posting or reading in this thread any further. Discussion with you is unproductive and unpleasant. I will take the advice of others in this thread under advisement, but will discard everything from you.
Perhaps if you made an attempt to actually address the points being made and refrain from constructing straw-motivations you'd find the discussion more productive. As for "unpleasant", I'm not responsible for your feelings. If you don't like your opinions being criticised, a good starting point would be not to engage in lazy character assassination of people about whom you, by your own admission, know nothing.
Okey dokey then, have a good day! Bye bye now.
techstepgenr8tion
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08 Jul 2017, 7:40 pm
Here's something interesting, and I don't know how to look at it.
It's dark enough to really raise a lot of people's alarm bells and I'm still not sure what the 'social justice community', if there is such a thing, should do about it - ie. either tell the 'petophobia' people that they've crossed the line (thank you Alex - I'm really glad that word failed spellcheck) and then recalculate just what that line is and where it should be or, alternately, happily walk hand in hand off the edge of history together by trumpeting pederasty rights. The later might come to the momentarily delight of some just that, well, we'd also see a major tank in the other direction and I really don't think I want to see what Alt-Right run wild-as-ANTIFA would look like.
Note: I don't agree with TWR on everything she said here, in most cases I don't think it's their choice, I think it has an OCD component (ie. age of offense really suggests that) and I think we've got a bit of cultural schizophrenia about the problem in our Victorian desire to stop the people involved out, but aside from treatment and understanding pedophilia as a mental disorder to be treated I'm not sure what can be done; essentially if they act on it they take a direct role in making more adults as messed up as themselves, like abuse it's a gift that keeps on giving, so clearly telling them that we're sorry, we've been bigoted, and that sex with children is okay is a non-option.
That makes me wonder... maybe this little epoch of history is us concretely learning to parse out details and learn what-from-what where we used to just have blanket religious injunctions and we still have the knee-jerk reaction of applying such a blanket non-nuanced approach in our politics. Could be...
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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
jrjones9933
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08 Jul 2017, 9:14 pm
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Here's something interesting, and I don't know how to look at it.
She lacks credibility. I watched her Sweden video instead. Anyone who shows that graph out of context deserves ridicule. Sweden dramatically expanded the range of offenses they label sexual assault, and the police actually listen. This caused a rapid increase in complaints of sexual assault. She appears to want to blame it on the refugees. No.
Also, I don't want to watch a video with such an inflammatory title. It's absurd.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
08 Jul 2017, 9:35 pm
P.C. - standards of thought and behaviour that are enforced by the state, at the expense of the free flow of ideas and information, in order to placate and avoid "hurting the feelings" of neurotypicals who can't face the harsh facts of reality, and therefore need to be mollycoddled (a.k.a. placed in bubble-wrap).
S.J.W. - an individual who is misguided to the extent that they believe that if they just shout, swear and carry on like a spoilt brat, they will get what they want, and who simply cannot handle the reality that not everyone will agree with their political agenda (and that thought makes them really, really mad, to the point of becoming violent and losing all control).
techstepgenr8tion
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08 Jul 2017, 9:36 pm
jrjones9933 wrote:
She lacks credibility. I watched her Sweden video instead. Anyone who shows that graph out of context deserves ridicule. Sweden dramatically expanded the range of offenses they label sexual assault, and the police actually listen. This caused a rapid increase in complaints of sexual assault. She appears to want to blame it on the refugees. No.
Also, I don't want to watch a video with such an inflammatory title. It's absurd.
Also, I don't want to watch a video with such an inflammatory title. It's absurd.
You might have missed my point. i wouldn't say much for her objectivity but I think she tied enough articles and videos together to establish that there is such a 'thing'. If its a taboo enough topic you may not have the luxury of a professional dissertation by the intellect of your choice.
I personally hope that's a line that, if any portion of the left has crossed over it, that the rest of the left tells them that they're on their own. Being pulled to that extreme and then having to answer for why they won't go there, when they've championed everyone else's rights, really forces them to soul-search for some type of concrete or objective answer as to why there's some standard or stopping point.
Like I said - pedophilia is a bullet that'll either end the left in terms of it embracing lunacy and walking off the horizon of history, or, more hopefully, correcting an impulsive momentum and having to really self-analyze.
_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
08 Jul 2017, 9:44 pm
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Here's something interesting, and I don't know how to look at it.
It's dark enough to really raise a lot of people's alarm bells and I'm still not sure what the 'social justice community', if there is such a thing, should do about it - ie. either tell the 'petophobia' people that they've crossed the line (thank you Alex - I'm really glad that word failed spellcheck) and then recalculate just what that line is and where it should be or, alternately, happily walk hand in hand off the edge of history together by trumpeting pederasty rights. The later might come to the momentarily delight of some just that, well, we'd also see a major tank in the other direction and I really don't think I want to see what Alt-Right run wild-as-ANTIFA would look like.
Note: I don't agree with TWR on everything she said here, in most cases I don't think it's their choice, I think it has an OCD component (ie. age of offense really suggests that) and I think we've got a bit of cultural schizophrenia about the problem in our Victorian desire to stop the people involved out, but aside from treatment and understanding pedophilia as a mental disorder to be treated I'm not sure what can be done; essentially if they act on it they take a direct role in making more adults as messed up as themselves, like abuse it's a gift that keeps on giving, so clearly telling them that we're sorry, we've been bigoted, and that sex with children is okay is a non-option.
That makes me wonder... maybe this little epoch of history is us concretely learning to parse out details and learn what-from-what where we used to just have blanket religious injunctions and we still have the knee-jerk reaction of applying such a blanket non-nuanced approach in our politics. Could be...
It's dark enough to really raise a lot of people's alarm bells and I'm still not sure what the 'social justice community', if there is such a thing, should do about it - ie. either tell the 'petophobia' people that they've crossed the line (thank you Alex - I'm really glad that word failed spellcheck) and then recalculate just what that line is and where it should be or, alternately, happily walk hand in hand off the edge of history together by trumpeting pederasty rights. The later might come to the momentarily delight of some just that, well, we'd also see a major tank in the other direction and I really don't think I want to see what Alt-Right run wild-as-ANTIFA would look like.
Note: I don't agree with TWR on everything she said here, in most cases I don't think it's their choice, I think it has an OCD component (ie. age of offense really suggests that) and I think we've got a bit of cultural schizophrenia about the problem in our Victorian desire to stop the people involved out, but aside from treatment and understanding pedophilia as a mental disorder to be treated I'm not sure what can be done; essentially if they act on it they take a direct role in making more adults as messed up as themselves, like abuse it's a gift that keeps on giving, so clearly telling them that we're sorry, we've been bigoted, and that sex with children is okay is a non-option.
That makes me wonder... maybe this little epoch of history is us concretely learning to parse out details and learn what-from-what where we used to just have blanket religious injunctions and we still have the knee-jerk reaction of applying such a blanket non-nuanced approach in our politics. Could be...
Unfortunately I don't have my headphones with me (I'm using a public computer), so I can't examine the arguments put forth in the clip, but judging by what you have here said and the appearance of it, I find myself saying "I knew things would get this far out of hand!"
Don't worry, I'm not going to repeat what I said elsewhere (and which upset many people), but this is precisely what happens when selfish individualism, and the "rights" movements that stem from it, are not challenged by those who reject the belief that such "rights" take precedence over all other considerations (like basic morality).
jrjones9933
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08 Jul 2017, 9:51 pm
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
She lacks credibility. I watched her Sweden video instead. Anyone who shows that graph out of context deserves ridicule. Sweden dramatically expanded the range of offenses they label sexual assault, and the police actually listen. This caused a rapid increase in complaints of sexual assault. She appears to want to blame it on the refugees. No.
Also, I don't want to watch a video with such an inflammatory title. It's absurd.
Also, I don't want to watch a video with such an inflammatory title. It's absurd.
You might have missed my point. i wouldn't say much for her objectivity but I think she tied enough articles and videos together to establish that there is such a 'thing'. If its a taboo enough topic you may not have the luxury of a professional dissertation by the intellect of your choice.
I personally hope that's a line that, if any portion of the left has crossed over it, that the rest of the left tells them that they're on their own. Being pulled to that extreme and then having to answer for why they won't go there, when they've championed everyone else's rights, really forces them to soul-search for some type of concrete or objective answer as to why there's some standard or stopping point.
Like I said - pedophilia is a bullet that'll either end the left in terms of it embracing lunacy and walking off the horizon of history, or, more hopefully, correcting an impulsive momentum and having to really self-analyze.
I reject all enslavement and abuse.
Our discussion of determinism has me backing off my previous stance in favor of just imprisonment, my new compulsory treatment regime serves the same social segregation function. The suggested video list had lots of pizza related material. I would rather mop than watch this video.
_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade
08 Jul 2017, 9:56 pm
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I personally hope that's a line that, if any portion of the left has crossed over it, that the rest of the left tells them that they're on their own. Being pulled to that extreme and then having to answer for why they won't go there, when they've championed everyone else's rights, really forces them to soul-search for some type of concrete or objective answer as to why there's some standard or stopping point.
Yes, that's what I would like to know as well - the "line" that must not be crossed. Where is it? Surely even people who are this bonkers have moral standards of some kind, even if those standards are incredibly lax and amorphous. What they call "racism", "sexism" and "fascism" are not tolerated by these people, so I guess there is some small hope that their souls can still be saved (maybe). Asking them to soul-search may be a bit too much to ask of people who are so easily led astray into believing bad ideas, but it really is something that I would also recommend they do, because they desperately need to.
techstepgenr8tion
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08 Jul 2017, 9:59 pm
jrjones9933 wrote:
I reject all enslavement and abuse.
Our discussion of determinism has me backing off my previous stance in favor of just imprisonment, my new compulsory treatment regime serves the same social segregation function. The suggested video list had lots of pizza related material. I would rather mop than watch this video.
Our discussion of determinism has me backing off my previous stance in favor of just imprisonment, my new compulsory treatment regime serves the same social segregation function. The suggested video list had lots of pizza related material. I would rather mop than watch this video.
Then search Youtube for someone you find more tolerable talking about this issue and, if you can't find anything, then circle back to this video as a last resort - or just take what I said on face value, ie. that pedophilia is a moral terminal - if the left sees itself at the boarder of that line it will have to self-examine in ways that it never has before if it decides not to cross that line, and if it does cross that line it walks off the edge of history only to return if the alt-right exceeds its lunacy enough to make Stalinist Russia look like a neat idea to repeat. I hope I'm not taking an easy way out here; AFAICT what I said is a truism and it doesn't rely on any videos necessarily to be a truism - it would be just as true with signals that the left was flirting with the idea of promoting pedophile rights as it would be if it were purely a rumor cooked up by screeching Alex Jones types. All that last part would do is verify where the left is in relationship to that line, the meaning and consequence of that line remains the same.
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“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
08 Jul 2017, 11:04 pm
Children cannot consent to sex. Their brains are not developed enough to understand the consequences of adult sexual behaviour. Therefore, any sexual activity between an adult and a child is abuse and can never be anything else but abuse. Surely we can all agree these basic facts are not debatable.
techstepgenr8tion
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08 Jul 2017, 11:23 pm
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
Children cannot consent to sex. Their brains are not developed enough to understand the consequences of adult sexual behaviour. Therefore, any sexual activity between an adult and a child is abuse and can never be anything else but abuse. Surely we can all agree these basic facts are not debatable.
Correct. It's the same exact reason that children aren't allowed to drink, smoke, etc.. until 18 or 21 - just amplified in negative consequence many times over.
_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin
