Page 1 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

04 Jul 2017, 5:41 pm

When I talk to MRAs on the web, they act like only males face oppression. They clain that all women have extremely easy lives, which is odd because they don't seem to know any women.

MRAs complain that SJWs are one-sided. It seems like MRAs are becoming just as one sided. MRAs complain about SJWs playing the victim. All the time I see MRAs playing the victim.

I think we've all heard the Nietzsche quote about he who fights monsters. I used to be on the MRA bandwagon before I started to see their hypocrisy. It amazes me how these armchair warriors can call themselves an alpha male and whine like a baby in the same post. Even MiniTru would be impressed by that level of doublethink.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

05 Jul 2017, 3:33 pm

I'm thinking what they all boil down, to, is radicals----and, I don't think I've ever met a radical, I liked. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it when someone comes to their own opinion about something, and is really passionate about it----but, radicals are mostly, IME, too far gone (meaning, most of 'em seem to have tunnel vision, and won't listen to ANYTHING that is different from their own POV). I don't know where that line IS, between radical and passionate----and, I imagine it's in a different place, for each person.

I wish we had MORE people who were passionate about men's rights (passionate, not radical)----ESPECIALLY, WOMEN----but, sadly, I don't think it'll be "allowed", because, as with any group, there are those (in this case, alot of women, it seems) who choose to remain a "victim", because "he who whines loudest, gets what he wants".


Note: "He" in that last sentence, is meant as a universal pronoun, like "mankind", and includes "she".




_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


adifferentname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,885

06 Jul 2017, 4:55 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
When I talk to MRAs on the web, they act like only males face oppression. They clain that all women have extremely easy lives, which is odd because they don't seem to know any women.

MRAs complain that SJWs are one-sided. It seems like MRAs are becoming just as one sided. MRAs complain about SJWs playing the victim. All the time I see MRAs playing the victim.

I think we've all heard the Nietzsche quote about he who fights monsters. I used to be on the MRA bandwagon before I started to see their hypocrisy. It amazes me how these armchair warriors can call themselves an alpha male and whine like a baby in the same post. Even MiniTru would be impressed by that level of doublethink.


I suggest you pay very little attention to anyone who views MRA as an identity rather than a verb - and yes, that now means ignoring the majority of people who call themselves MRAs.

Campin_Cat wrote:
I wish we had MORE people who were passionate about men's rights (passionate, not radical)----ESPECIALLY, WOMEN----but, sadly, I don't think it'll be "allowed", because, as with any group, there are those (in this case, alot of women, it seems) who choose to remain a "victim", because "he who whines loudest, gets what he wants".


The irony being that what most of them are whining about is that the society they live in isn't sympathetic to male victims. They're completely missing the point of the argument they themselves are making when they adopt the mantle of victimhood.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

06 Jul 2017, 6:23 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
I'm thinking what they all boil down, to, is radicals----and, I don't think I've ever met a radical, I liked. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE it when someone comes to their own opinion about something, and is really passionate about it----but, radicals are mostly, IME, too far gone (meaning, most of 'em seem to have tunnel vision, and won't listen to ANYTHING that is different from their own POV).

Tunnel vision is a good way to put it. When they see stuff that goes against their narrative, they ignore it, try to downplay it, or get really angry. If they're getting angry at actual events it seems like they're angry at reality for not fitting in with their black and white narrative.

adifferentname wrote:
The irony being that what most of them are whining about is that the society they live in isn't sympathetic to male victims. They're completely missing the point of the argument they themselves are making when they adopt the mantle of victimhood.

Exactly. It's so obvious and they're so blind to it.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


XFilesGeek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,031
Location: The Oort Cloud

06 Jul 2017, 7:57 am

Quote:
Tunnel vision is a good way to put it. When they see stuff that goes against their narrative, they ignore it, try to downplay it, or get really angry. If they're getting angry at actual events it seems like they're angry at reality for not fitting in with their black and white narrative.


So, basically, human nature. :D

Seriously, I find hard-headed extremists of any stripe (MRA, SJW, feminists, ect.) obnoxious.


_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

-XFG (no longer a moderator)


TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

06 Jul 2017, 7:32 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
Tunnel vision is a good way to put it. When they see stuff that goes against their narrative, they ignore it, try to downplay it, or get really angry. If they're getting angry at actual events it seems like they're angry at reality for not fitting in with their black and white narrative.


So, basically, human nature. :D

Seriously, I find hard-headed extremists of any stripe (MRA, SJW, feminists, ect.) obnoxious.

Hallelujah.


_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

06 Jul 2017, 8:39 pm

The opinion in this thread seems to be that both SJWs and MRAs aren't worth listening to. It's nice to see that most people see things in a more balanced way.

Taking that into account, I guess rather than getting the culture war the MRAs are expecting, the whole thing will just fizzle out.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


TheSpectrum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,121
Location: Hampshire

06 Jul 2017, 8:48 pm

I see many of these splinter groups of thought from the mild to extreme as results of the catalyst that is extreme left wing views. Those views were in turn brought about by extreme right wing views that were rife even only 20-25 years ago.

In a few years everything will sort of fizzle out, as you say. Once people learn to handle instant global communication and each other's differences.


_________________
Yours sincerely, some dude.


adifferentname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,885

07 Jul 2017, 3:04 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
The opinion in this thread seems to be that both SJWs and MRAs aren't worth listening to. It's nice to see that most people see things in a more balanced way.


I disagree. The consensus seems to be that extreme ideologues aren't worth listening to. All SJWs are extreme ideologues but not all MRAs are.

The important distinction is the one I made earlier. MRA describes an action - advocacy or activism in support of the rights of men. The ones to ignore are those for whom MRA is a collectivist identity rather than something you do.

Quote:
Taking that into account, I guess rather than getting the culture war the MRAs are expecting, the whole thing will just fizzle out.


I don't think identity politics are going away any time soon without a major paradigm shift, possibly caused by a unifying external threat.



TheRedPedant93
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 315
Location: Scotland

07 Jul 2017, 9:34 am

I oppose SJW's, Second Wave (most of it), Third Wave Feminists and MRA's altogether, but there a great deal of MRA's who are not those one-sided ideologues who pervasively view the belief label as an integrative part of a collectivist identity that often leads to a victimology temperament, a magnanimous persecution complex and the undermining of independent thinking by transitioning to a complete black and white mindset, deindividuation & ideological groupthink (like all forms of collectivist identity politics do, and this audibly explains why people like Jordan Peterson, RockingMrE, Lauren Southern, Sargon of Akkad and the first wave feminist Christina Hoff Summers repudiate it), so I would I get along with let's say 70% of the activists and especially the female adherents like Blaire White and Karen Straughan, and those who I don't get along have a lot in common with the MGTOW collective which I ardently oppose.

To me MGTOW's are the SJWism of Men's Rights, especially juxtaposed with non-alpha male traits and a purple pill mentality (golden handshake between red pill and blue pill beliefs), and would easily get "triggered" by anything that contradicts their narrative. BTW, the poster who mentioned that identity politics would not be superannuated without a major paradigm shift has a point, only by disposing the Divide and Conquer Hegelian Dialectics that control humanity (e.g. the Culture Wars between SJW's; Center Left Liberals, Libertarians (inc Conservatarians), Paleocons and the Authoritarian Right (fascists/theocrats e.t.c); Isms/Ologies/Doctrines, NSM's e.t.c) would subsequently lead to a more spiritually and individually enlightened future, and I fervently believe that this would require government policies that are totally inapplicable to this discussion like monetary and banking reform.


_________________
Diagnosed with "Classical" Asperger's syndrome in 1998 (Clinical psychologist).
RAADS-R: 237/240
Aspie score: 199 out of 200
Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 1 out of 200
Alexithymia Questionnaire: 166/185 AQ: 49/50 EQ: 9/80


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,184
Location: Right over your left shoulder

07 Jul 2017, 1:06 pm

I think they'd be SIWs, Social Injustice Warriors. ;)


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

08 Jul 2017, 4:33 am

TheRedPedant93 wrote:
I oppose SJW's, Second Wave (most of it), Third Wave Feminists and MRA's altogether, but there a great deal of MRA's who are not those one-sided ideologues who pervasively view the belief label as an integrative part of a collectivist identity that often leads to a victimology temperament, a magnanimous persecution complex and the undermining of independent thinking by transitioning to a complete black and white mindset, deindividuation & ideological groupthink (like all forms of collectivist identity politics do, and this audibly explains why people like Jordan Peterson, RockingMrE, Lauren Southern, Sargon of Akkad and the first wave feminist Christina Hoff Summers repudiate it), so I would I get along with let's say 70% of the activists and especially the female adherents like Blaire White and Karen Straughan, and those who I don't get along have a lot in common with the MGTOW collective which I ardently oppose.


I didn't say all MRAs. #notallmras. I joke. This is started to sound like "not all feminists hate men".

TheRedPedant93 wrote:
To me MGTOW's are the SJWism of Men's Rights, especially juxtaposed with non-alpha male traits and a purple pill mentality (golden handshake between red pill and blue pill beliefs), and would easily get "triggered" by anything that contradicts their narrative.


That and MGTOWs are also the guys who are too scared to ask a girl out. MGTOWS be like - I could totally ask a girl out if I wanted to, I just don't want to.

Joining an ideology that's opposed to asking girls out is a convenient way to cover their girl-anxiety.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,105
Location: The Infodome

09 Jul 2017, 10:27 pm

To be honest, the sensitivity of MRAs doesn't bug me. Lots of people mock them for that, but they are generally at their best when they are being sensitive.

Women can and often do abuse men. Male abuse victims are often ignored and shamed into silence. This is a serious issue.

My problem with MRAs is this: They generally respond to toxicity with more toxicity. Can't we all just get along?


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,932
Location: Adelaide, Australia

10 Jul 2017, 5:19 am

On the other hand feminism pisses me off too. Today I listened to Wired UK podcast. The episode was about sexual harassment in the workplace and they made it sound like they were blaming all men for the actions of a few.

E.g. saying most venture capitalists are men, there for female entrepreneurs will get sexually harassed. True most venture capitalists are men but what if some venture capitalists are men who aren't perverts? Maybe some are faithful to their wives. Even if all venture capitalists were men, it would not be impossible for a female entrepreneur to see one of them without being sexually harrased.

The guy on the podcast just acted like all men sexually harass women. Does he include himself in that? Male feminists are the preachers. He also said no one should defend the accused. I agree that no one should justify it but we're not certain the accused did it.

Feminism would be more successful if they didn't antagonist guys in that way. You should never shame people for doing the right thing.

They should read How to Win Friends and Influence People, which teaches that to modify someone's behavior you don't shame them. It's one of the best books I've ever read.

The worst part is, this wasn't from a feminist publication like Every Day Feminism, it was from a mainstream publication, not specifically about feminism, namely Wired UK.

I'm so pissed off at MRA as well as feminism. Maybe if the two groups met in the middle they'd be like normal reasonable people.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 30
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 7,028
Location: Alberta, Canada

11 Jul 2017, 5:24 pm

MRAs, SJWs, two sides of the same coin. They're delusional crybabies who can't accept how the world actually works.


_________________
Every day is exactly the same...


K_Kelly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2014
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

14 Jul 2017, 2:00 pm

My whole issue is that, while those on both sides of the same coin are extremist, it's really true that the crazy feminists get away with it more. So I don't know if the same attitude from the opposite side should be totally unjustified.

I think this also goes back to the fact that feminists tend to be on the left and many (if not all) MRAs tend to be on the right. This is usual for a lot of things. If your left=well meaning, naive person, but if you see the right=woah, wacky lunatic. This thinking isn't really justifiable at all. Ideologies that cover the whole right-of-center have every much a right to be angry too because they are the only side who are not "allowed" to be radicals or behave in that manner.