White House Reopens Debate On Race And College Admissions

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AnonymousAnonymous
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02 Aug 2017, 1:25 pm

Chronos
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02 Aug 2017, 2:18 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:


Opponents of affirmative action insist a person should be judged on their merit alone, while overlooking the fact that affirmative action was incepted because people were not being judged on their merit alone.

And indeed, regardless of affirmative action, people still aren't judged on merit alone. In fact, in many instances, one's merit, one's skill set, one's knowledge...what one has to have to offer as a person, takes a back seat to their sex, race, age, heritage, looks, height, religion, nationality, and things that should otherwise be irrelevant. I believe many people on the spectrum have first hand knowledge of this. Many of us are more knowledgeable or skilled in certain subjects or fields than many NTs who continually are chosen over us due to the fact that they are more "normal" seeming, or can sell themselves better, who "fit in" better, who are more similar to those doing the hiring or admittance process and who exist in the mind of the other individual as the "standard".

Should a person first and foremost be judged on their merit? Yes. Is that how human society works? No.

Will affirmative action fix that? No. These are innate human tendencies. Will affirmative action help to get minorities into positions that have historically excluded them based on their minority status? Yes. However one must be careful to understand what a minority actually is.

I recall once when I was young I applied for a minority oriented program at an organization I had wanted to intern for and was rejected because I was not considered to be a person of color.

But I was a female, which was and is a minority in my field. I'm Ashkenazi jew, which is an ethnic minority among humans which has been discriminated against for centuries and anti-semitism is still a problem, I'm of a sect which is a minority among Ashkenazi jews, I'm from a socially disadvantaged background, and I'm on the spectrum and I'm a female on the spectrum.

But I was excluded because I was not part of the majority minorities.

How ironic is that?



Marknis
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02 Aug 2017, 4:13 pm

We on the spectrum are the invisible minority. We get bullied and ostracized but when injustices are talked about, we aren't included and I've even had liberal minded people tell me I have "assburgers" or "Quit being f****n' autistic!" as if it makes me a subhuman. At school some of my bullies (who were rednecks) told me I have "hamburger syndrome". :roll:

When I would try to ask for help at college regarding having Aspergers, they didn't even try to help me. I was pushed into a study room but wasn't given a calculator despite how I told them I needed one so I flunked my math course. When I tried to inquire about starting a club for Aspergers, I was told by the coordinator to ask people personally which was impossible because no one wanted to talk since they were always on their cellphones. The coordinator immediately started up clubs for NAACP and LULAC off the bat.



BettaPonic
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02 Aug 2017, 4:27 pm

I think merit is how you should judge someone. By chance or culture, some groups might over or under represent a group. I also think the school system being fixed will help.



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02 Aug 2017, 8:37 pm

I think the real question here is: why is Trump doing this? And the answer is, this is a love letter to his Alt Right and redneck base. This isn't about judging people on their merits rather than their skin color, it's about turning the clock backward.


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cyberdad
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02 Aug 2017, 11:47 pm

Yes its no accident this is on Trump's "to do list"

Come to think of it, if merit was a criteria to lead a fortune 500 company then his father would never have given him a "leg up" let alone the blatantly obvious question of whether he is fit to be president

Having said that I believe this is one of the few right wing pet topics that has some basis. For a country to grow/develop then deploying the best students into higher education should be a priority.

For example putting minority quotas on higher education in areas such as medicine, engineering, space research, environment etc where advancement will make a difference to our future survival as a species shouldn't happen.

Although it is sometimes unfair to minorities, merit based allocation of places in higher education should be employed



Jacoby
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03 Aug 2017, 12:54 am

Perhaps there was a reason for Affirmative Action when these institutions were still segregated but those days are long gone, I don't think anybody could argue that they are discriminatory at this point. Everyone should be judged on their merit and character not their skin color, the only way for racism to end is for race to end. I don't think race need be factored in, if one overcame a disadvantaged background whatever that then it shouldn't matter what race they are. Our whole education system is completely stupid, social promotion and the pushing of EVERYBODY into college while discouraging vocational education has made it an absolute joke. We're are shackling kids with 6 figures of debt for near worthless degrees before they've even started their lives, only in America is this considered social progress. Germany's education system is vastly superior to our own as acknowledged by both the right & left but if tried here in America it would be considered the most racist thing since slavery.



cyberdad
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03 Aug 2017, 1:37 am

Jacoby wrote:
Everyone should be judged on their merit and character not their skin color, the only way for racism to end is for race to end.

Yes I think this is what Martin Luther King stated so we are on safe ground. In this sense the NAACP might feel their members should deserve a "leg up" but infact I think this has a reverse effect whereby members of certain communities might feel less inclined to strive for academic excellence, this is counterproductive given they effectively have a "lower bar to hurdle" to meet minimum entry. It would be great to see people Neil De Grasse Tyson in astronomy or the black mathematicians employed by NASA during the segregation era been put on a pedestal in the African American community. These are examples of people who have strived intellectually against the odds without special treatment.

Jacoby wrote:
Germany's education system is vastly superior to our own as acknowledged by both the right & left but if tried here in America it would be considered the most racist thing since slavery.

Singapore has a more advanced education system although it's a little authoritarian.



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03 Aug 2017, 3:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I think the real question here is: why is Trump doing this? And the answer is, this is a love letter to his Alt Right and redneck base. This isn't about judging people on their merits rather than their skin color, it's about turning the clock backward.

This explains why I couldn't come up with a title for this thread.

It sickens me.


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