Drifting away

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Yes, that is similar to how I perceive many NTs have it.

I mostly have a few friends I'm cooperating with research-wise. We message each other's when we have read something and discuss research ideas. I also can ask them for full-text papers. I've been friends with a few of them for many years. It is not a tit-for-tat exchange, more like a completely altruistic exchange. I'm not emotionally bonded to any of them and we typically don't discuss private matters.

I know many NTs have friends to party with, but I really don't like partying. Still, one might say that my family has a few friends like that. It's mostly because our daughter had a crush on a guy at a shared activity, and now is close "friends" with him. Because of that, we actually go to a few parties, which usually are fun.

At work, I really don't have any real friends. The colleges are more like acquaintances, but a few of them tried to take it further without much success. I was not comfortable with that.

The face of boo . . .. . We are going around in circles here .. . .. . The problem is what do I get from the friendship. It is all on his terms . . .. . I get less and less verification or signs of appreciation as time goes on . . .. . Yes friendships drift away . .. . . However the one thing he has adamantly said is that is not what he wants . . .that he does want me in his life. . . .and this is the crux of the problem and why AS has a name and actually exists . .. . .. Yes we CAN do ND type friendships but it is emotionally very difficult. . . .. . Our inbuilt mechanisms tell us we are being taken for granted, we are not cared for, we are being used. It is a constant fight against these emotions and feeling no matter how illogical they may feel to you.

^^^ this is the thing...I don't get into it because it feels pointless on here but it's wearing to read how ASD people need this, or that etc.
And it's up to the NT to accommodate. If they don't/can't... it's cos "they don't want to"...an NT is supposed to do whatever the ASD needs. There's no onus on the ASD individual. It all rests on the NT. If stuff fails it's cos the NT failed. Didn't understand. Wasn't understanding enough.

Being NT "is also a condition" with its incumbent requirements. We get overlooked on this entirely too much.

In general, I agree that people with ASD (and NDs) need to adapt/accommodate, but they already do this a lot because otherwise, you would not even get to know them, much less become friends with them. I think the best is if those that can most easily adapt do this, rather than demanding that things that are very hard to adapt should be changed. I think the friendship area is an area where NTs more easily can adapt.

To see why NDs have so much trouble in the friendship area, and why this is not easily fixed even among those that fly far above the diagnostic area you might study this Aspie Quiz evaluation based on 150,000 answers: http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/l4, and in particular the related questions report: http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/l4/rell4.htm

In particular:
93. Do you see your own activities as more important than other people's? (Aspie-score correlation: .45)
99. Will you abandon your friends if your activities or ideals clash? (Aspie-score correlation: .49)
103. Do you find it hard to be emotionally close to other people? (Aspie-score correlation: .57)
105. Has it been harder for you than for others to keep friends? (Aspie-score correlation: .64)

Then compare that to some relationship issues:
71. Have you experienced stronger than normal attachments to certain people? (Aspie-score correlation: .49)
76. Have people you formed strong attachments to taken advantage of you? (Aspie-score correlation: .48)
81. Do you have, or used to have, imaginary relationships? (Aspie-score correlation: .48)

What this shows is that NDs form strong attachments in the relationship area, but have much weaker (or even non-existent) attachments with friends. Of note is also that it is primarily infatuation and obsessive thoughts that builds the romantic attachment for NDs, unlike NTs that attach with dating (conversation, sex). Dating is pretty similar to hanging out with friends, so probably explains why friends and relationships are a lot more similar to NTs than to NDs.

There are few possible fixes for this. One is that NTs adapt more to NDs in friendships. The other is that NDs follow the relationship path and become actively polyamory (many NDs can have multiple romantic attachments). The downside of the latter approach is that romantic attachments are exclusive in the initial build-up phase for NDs, and thus they cannot pursue potential partners at the same time if they follow that path. Another downside is that the romantic attachment process typically takes years to build for NDs, so even if the polyamory path is followed, they would still have to be extremely picky with whom they do this with.

While I have researched the attachment process in relationships, it would be interesting to show that NDs don't attach to friends. I suppose there should be some instrument to measure attachments in friendships which can be used for that purpose.

Personally, I think the polyamory path has a lot of potentials, but I wouldn't do it with an NT, and I would expect it to be more like an asexual polyamory relationship than a close friendship.

Last edited by rdos on 13 Aug 2017, 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Then stop texting him at all; let's test him if he cares.

I'll be honest with you here. I'm a woman and I don't understand what you want. I don't feel like I need constant verification that my friends like me. We talk from time to time. We text from time to time. We meet up from time to time. We don't need every day contact with one another to know that we still like each other.

Sounds to me like you're in love with him and want a girlfriend boyfriend relationship with him and he doesn't want that. He just wants to be friends as in: you chat sometimes, you meet up sometimes, but you don't live in each other's pockets.

I don't really see anything you need to worry about.

You relate positively? Enjoy! That's what I'm into. There's no need to keep labeling every part of life all the time.

I do stop texting him . .. . He will text me usually 2 or 3 times a week.

We have had a day out today . . .. . Lovely as always.

I'm going to stop trying to explain my concerns on here. . . .because either I am really bad at explaining myself or you are misunderstanding me. However I do appreciate everybody's input.

Cberg I definitely become attached to my friends. Many are 30yr plus friendships. If I find someone I think really understands me I will fight tooth and nail to keep them in my life . . .. . .hence my Aspie friend situation. I have worked really hard at this friendship. I'm sure he has too in his own way if I'm honest.

I just feel like you're coming over as really possessive. Unfortunately no matter how much we personally like someone and no matter how much effort we put into a friendship that won't make another person feel the same way about us.

That's nothing to do with autism. Friendships change and fluctuate over time. Circumstances change. Things won't always stay the way we want them to.

Sometimes you just have to accept that and move on with your life.

Just started an investigation of friend attachment using the Adolescence Friend Attachment Scale + questions about friendship type, duration and friend's gender, and already with a small sample it is pretty clear that many NDs confuse friendships and relationships, while few NTs do. Also, it seems like for NTs, the attachment score increases with duration, but not for NDs. Still, I'll run this for a few months to get a sufficient sample of perhaps 10,000 to 20,000 answers which I think is required to do a robust duration analysis and potentially mediation analysis too.

It's also pretty evident that most different gender friendships indeed are potential relationships, not friendships.

Hurtloam . . .. if I come away that way then I am misrepresenting myself because that is completely not the point. . . .. . .. . Anyways after all the insight on here we spoke yesterday. He is absolutely adamant that he values our friendship and would not want to lose me from his life. . . .. . .all is good. It is not about being possessive. It is about how difficult it is for an NT person to know or understand if someone who reacts emotionally in such a different way . . .actually wants them around or values them. I am willing to put in the 98% effort to maintain this friendship but he has to do his 2% part and it felt like that was slipping away.

And rdos that research sounds interesting look forward to hearing more. . .. .. I only speak from a very limited anecdotal perspective, but do you think any of the attachment issues ND folk experience come from bad childhood experiences- where they were treated badly by other children and often felt lonely?? Or do you think it is a neurological difference?

No, I think it is the other way around. There are some fundamental differences in the attachment processes of NDs, probably both in relationships, friendships and in parent-child bonds. It is these differences that create a lot of problems for NDs. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one the biggest factor in diagnosis, and it might even explain the male bias. Which is kind of counter-intuitive given that the issues with nonverbal communication and social traits have no direct connection to attachment processes. These are only correlated through neurotype, not by any causative route.

Interesting stuff . . ..

So after my chat on Sunday my friend has been lovely and chatting via text and messenger all the time. So I have sent this message to try and be really clear about what I need . . .. and before you shoot me down from asking too much from my friend I do loads for him I promise . . .. what do you think (*runs and hides)



I hope you know you are one of the special people in my life. These are the people i can trust. All I ask of you is that you send me a text (doesn't have to say anything other than "xx" or "hugs" ) every couple of days. To me it means the world to know you are out there, you occasionally think of me and that you care. It may not make sense to you but to me it is as important as the coffee I get for you, the food I provide and the hats I find to make sure you are ok.
And I know at the moment we are talking loads which is great and lovely but I never want you to find our friendship a burden. You do your own thing I do mine for a lot of the time, but just checking in to make sure each other is ok is really important to me . .. .

Sounds pretty cool to me.....

Thanks Kraftie he seems cool with it too which is the main thing I guess