Measure to force the President to undergo a mental exam.

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kraftiekortie
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30 Aug 2017, 11:59 am

They might be sitting around watching a football game---and they'll say, "look at that monkey!"

Things like that.

And they'll talk about now "N's" lower property values or something. I grew up around these conversations.

The things he says.....reminds me of people I grew up with.



kraftiekortie
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30 Aug 2017, 12:05 pm

If truth be told, I'm not certain that Donald Trump is a racist. I'm certain his father was, though.

What he said about Mexicans, though.....sort of rings a bell with me.



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30 Aug 2017, 3:47 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The term "the browning of America" was first used by right wing racists, and their conservative apologists. Thr primary problem among conservatives regarding racism is their denial that racism is a problem among their rank-and-file. In fact, many conservatives have the absurd idea that whites are the most discriminated against group.
Sure, illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but most of them are hardly the criminal rapists, killers, or drug dealers. Rather, they want a better life for themselves and their children.
By the way, a great many illegals are actually Irish, but you hear nothing about them. As those illegals who are demonized are Latinos, it's hard for one not to think their problem is with brown people.


Whoever coins a phrase is one thing. Whomever uses it the most is another.
So basically if they want a term to spread like wildfire, leave it up to the left to do it for them. And I wouldn't be surprised to find out it originated on 4chan. It seems likely Illegals want to siphon off welfare, which I figure the left would gladly supply them with and add more to the national debt. And yeah you're right, I haven't heard about zillions of Irish pouring through our southern border. I know at one time there were boatloads of them arriving here and that they were utterly despised despite being white. The idea that whites always accept whites and only reject "brown people" is not something that's supported by history.


"The browning of America" is a phrase that predates 4chan by several years. It's been used by racists and nativists on the right, not by liberals. And no, I'm hardly blaming all conservatives for being such hateful creatures.

And yes, the Irish were particularly despised in America back in the 19th century. Today, though, hardly anyone takes notice of those who are illegally in the US.


It's not used by liberals per se, but it sure is repeated by them. It's one of those phrases I never come across anyone else saying except for liberals saying that it's said by others. You say no one is taking notice of illegal Irish immigrants, but I'm seeing a plethora of news stories about it. What more notice is there supposed to be, Trump saying he's going to build a wall around Ireland? Illegal immigration from Central and South America has been a chronic problem for decades. Maybe not in Spokane. But you sure notice it in S. Nevada and S. California. Once peaceful charming little neghborhoods have become dangerous crime infested barrios. Keep in mind a chunk of my family are Spanish speaking "brown people" who agree completely with that assessment.


Are those same far right wingers complaining about illegal immigration from Ireland? I think not.
I hope you're not saying that every illegal Latino immigrant is responsible for all that crime. Just as hardly every Irish or Italian immigrant in 19th century America was responsible for the rampant crime in their ethnic ghettos.


I have no idea what far right extremist people talk about. Except for what you and others say about it. Massive illegal immigration from central and south America is a problem that has gotten progressively worse over the decades. It's something that needs better tougher controls.


It's actually begun falling off, but you wouldn't know that listening to Trump.
Right wing extremists talk about how whites are the most discriminated against group thanks to growing numbers of non-white Americans, and how immigration - legal and illegal - is out of control.


Good. Racism/bigotry is falling off too. But you wouldn't know that listening to the left. Extremists say/think all kinds of extreme stuff, whether they be on the right or the left; it's pretty much a prerequisite for being an extremist.


No, if anything, racism has gotten a resurgence. First with the bigoted reaction to Obama, which included the idiocy of birtherism led by Trump, and now with Trump's election, which racists have been emboldened by with his coded language about minorities. Yes, extremists say extreme things, but that extremism on the right has had new life breathed into it in recent years.


The fact that a black man was elected twice was a huge leap forward. But there are those who won't acknowledge that because not everyone was on board with it. As far as the birther thing goes it sems the conclusion is it was the possibility of Obama being born in Kenya that made it racist. As if the forgien country in question had been Canada, no one would have changed it. I think the point was to find some way of disqualifying a democrat president. Considering the umpteen desperate attemts at play to disqualify Trump, the left is just doing the same thing but to a much more extensive degree. And I can't say much about "coded language" since that's such a subjective term. But I know people of my generation are overall a lot less racist than people of your generation. But it feels like people of your generation want to cling onto stuff and keep the problem alive to have something to protest. It's like the annual marijuana protest in Seattle called Hempfest. The protest festival is still being heald, even though pot is legal now. People are asking "why the hell is there still Hempfest?". The reason seems to be that some folks thrive on having a cause to fight for, even if the problem doesn't exist any longer.


Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


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30 Aug 2017, 5:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If truth be told, I'm not certain that Donald Trump is a racist. I'm certain his father was, though.

What he said about Mexicans, though.....sort of rings a bell with me.


It's kind of denial really. Trump hires Mexican staff in his resorts just like Donald Sterling owns a black basketball team
We already know what Donald Sterling thinks of his players



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31 Aug 2017, 7:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.



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31 Aug 2017, 7:24 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
They might be sitting around watching a football game---and they'll say, "look at that monkey!"

Things like that.

And they'll talk about now "N's" lower property values or something. I grew up around these conversations.

The things he says.....reminds me of people I grew up with.


Like what? I mean is there anything more substantial to this other than a subjective anicdotal inkling?



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31 Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


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31 Aug 2017, 4:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?!

For the Alt-right it's called "newspeak" (to borrow the language of Orwell) whereby racism is coded in poorly masqueraded attempts (like Obama's birth certificate) to appear like they making allegations over impropriety.



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31 Aug 2017, 7:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?!

For the Alt-right it's called "newspeak" (to borrow the language of Orwell) whereby racism is coded in poorly masqueraded attempts (like Obama's birth certificate) to appear like they making allegations over impropriety.


Absolutely it is.


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31 Aug 2017, 9:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.



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31 Aug 2017, 10:32 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


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EzraS
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31 Aug 2017, 10:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


Is any of that a fact that you can substantiate or is it all a matter of conjecture? The assertion that I have "chosen to defend birtherism" is non sequitur as I've already stated in the past that I thought it was ridiculous. Show me proof that challenging Obama being a natural born citizen was racist. Not conjecture based on "coded language" and the like. As strongly as you are asserting this as a fact, there should be solid evidence that you can present.



Kraichgauer
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31 Aug 2017, 11:23 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


Is any of that a fact that you can substantiate or is it all a matter of conjecture? The assertion that I have "chosen to defend birtherism" is non sequitur as I've already stated in the past that I thought it was ridiculous. Show me proof that challenging Obama being a natural born citizen was racist. Not conjecture based on "coded language" and the like. As strongly as you are asserting this as a fact, there should be solid evidence that you can present.


Do you deny the David Duke, and the denizens of Stormfront are racist? Because they, and people just like them were making those charges.
If you say you feel birtherism is ridiculous, I believe you. But as you concede it's without merit, why not also concede the obvious: that Obama was targeted by them because of his race?


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31 Aug 2017, 11:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


Is any of that a fact that you can substantiate or is it all a matter of conjecture? The assertion that I have "chosen to defend birtherism" is non sequitur as I've already stated in the past that I thought it was ridiculous. Show me proof that challenging Obama being a natural born citizen was racist. Not conjecture based on "coded language" and the like. As strongly as you are asserting this as a fact, there should be solid evidence that you can present.


Do you deny the David Duke, and the denizens of Stormfront are racist? Because they, and people just like them were making those charges.
If you say you feel birtherism is ridiculous, I believe you. But as you concede it's without merit, why not also concede the obvious: that Obama was targeted by them because of his race?


I think he was more substantially targeted as a democrat president. A lot of people thought he was a lousy president and wanted him out of office. So they came up with a cockamamie attempt to remove him based on an interpretation of constitutional law. I just don't see any point in reading anything more into it than that.

People want Trump impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Obama impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Bush impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Clinton impeached and removed from office.

If Hillary Clinton had become president people would be wanting her impeached and removed from office. I figure most likely they would be trying to prove she has Parkinson's disease or a similar disorder making her unfit to be president. And I also figure many would be claiming that was based on misogyny.



Kraichgauer
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01 Sep 2017, 12:11 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


Is any of that a fact that you can substantiate or is it all a matter of conjecture? The assertion that I have "chosen to defend birtherism" is non sequitur as I've already stated in the past that I thought it was ridiculous. Show me proof that challenging Obama being a natural born citizen was racist. Not conjecture based on "coded language" and the like. As strongly as you are asserting this as a fact, there should be solid evidence that you can present.


Do you deny the David Duke, and the denizens of Stormfront are racist? Because they, and people just like them were making those charges.
If you say you feel birtherism is ridiculous, I believe you. But as you concede it's without merit, why not also concede the obvious: that Obama was targeted by them because of his race?


I think he was more substantially targeted as a democrat president. A lot of people thought he was a lousy president and wanted him out of office. So they came up with a cockamamie attempt to remove him based on an interpretation of constitutional law. I just don't see any point in reading anything more into it than that.

People want Trump impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Obama impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Bush impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Clinton impeached and removed from office.

If Hillary Clinton had become president people would be wanting her impeached and removed from office. I figure most likely they would be trying to prove she has Parkinson's disease or a similar disorder making her unfit to be president. And I also figure many would be claiming that was based on misogyny.


Well, as Obama was sent to the White House twice, apparently most Americans didn't think him lousy at all.
The fact remains, there was clear racism - some blatant, others veiled - involved in birtherism.
And for the record, if there wasn't such evidence that Trump had help from a powerful, anti-democratic leader like Putin, I wouldn't be keen on him being impeached at all. Regardless, he's either going to be a one termer, or will declare victory and resign.


_________________
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EzraS
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Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

01 Sep 2017, 12:53 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, a black man was elected twice, but all the hate directed at him was racial. The visibility of Alt Right white nationalism today is proof that racism hadn't ended with Obama's election.
Yes, birtherism was entirely racist. Even when there was no doubt about Obama's birthplace, birthers still called for his impeachment. Even today, there are racist loons who refuse to believe he's American born - - or at least use that as a pretext to thinly veil their racial hate.


I didn't say racism ended with Obama being elected twice. But it did show that racism was/is on a sharp decrease in America overall (if you can stop focusing on the alt-right for a second). How was trying to disqualify Obama as having been born outside the US racist? But anyways, obviously some refuse to celebrate a black man being elected as potus twice as substantial progress in racism and would rather fume over the silly birther issue. I think some people are so addicted to being outraged sjw types, they are unable/unwilling to acknowledge progress.


Are you seriously trying to say birtherism wasn't about race?!?! Sure, racism is in decline, but not among the people who entertained the birther fantasy. Just listen to the kind of things birthers said and still say, and it'll be hard to disagree about their racism. So just how is birtherism not racist? And on that point, if birthers weren't so racist, they'd realize that since Obama's mother was an American, so was he automatically, and thus eligible to be President.
And it should be pointed out, the new racism of today has been described as the denial that racism still exists. If it didn't, why are blacks disproportionately hassled, wrongly arrested, and even killed by the police? Why are blacks disproportionately convicted of drug crimes that most whites guilty of the same thing never see the inside of a prison for? Why is black unemployment so high? Why do so many blacks still have to depend on public assistance rather than a wage (here's a hint: it has nothing to do with laziness, or being chained to it by liberal social programs)? Why are blacks left to ethnic ghettos?


As far as I know, the attempt was to disqualify Obama as not being a natural born citizen. Race is not a factor in that constitutional law. And the term natural born citizen is not clearly defined. Many interpret it as meaning born in the United States. So the idea was that Obama was not born in the United States and that it was being kept a secret. Again this doesn't work on race, it works on nationality. Therefore it was not based on race. That's just a simple fact of how it's stated in the constitution. Now it was quite obvious that Obama is African American, so it wasn't a matter of trying to prove that. If it had been a situation where Obama was passing as white, and they were trying to disqualify him based on him having a black father, that would be based on race and make it racist. But that wasn't the case. Saying that racism no longer exists would obviously be a fallacy. It will always exist among all races. But it obviously no longer exists in America at a level where a black man wouldn't be elected potus twice. I don't think that would have been the case in the 50's, 60's, 70's 80's and maybe 90's. As time goes on less and less Americans care about someone's skin color. That doesn't mean it not still an issue, it means that it's not as much of an issue overall and becoming less of an issue as time goes on. I know my generation, those of us born in the 2000's, in the 21st century, don't care about it nearly as much overall as those born in the 1900's, in the previous century. It seems like a lot of people from your generation think America overall still has a 1970's level of racism.


Are you seriously saying that those birthers were only inspired by true blue patriotism, and not by racism? Race has nothing to do with one being President, but denial that Obama was born in America was called into question specifically because he's a black man with an African father. And no, I don't believe for a minute that a white President would have been put through the ringer as Obama had.
I have to wonder if you've chosen to defend birtherism only because Trump had been the leader of the birther pack for years. Yes, Virginia, Donald Trump is a racist.


Is any of that a fact that you can substantiate or is it all a matter of conjecture? The assertion that I have "chosen to defend birtherism" is non sequitur as I've already stated in the past that I thought it was ridiculous. Show me proof that challenging Obama being a natural born citizen was racist. Not conjecture based on "coded language" and the like. As strongly as you are asserting this as a fact, there should be solid evidence that you can present.


Do you deny the David Duke, and the denizens of Stormfront are racist? Because they, and people just like them were making those charges.
If you say you feel birtherism is ridiculous, I believe you. But as you concede it's without merit, why not also concede the obvious: that Obama was targeted by them because of his race?


I think he was more substantially targeted as a democrat president. A lot of people thought he was a lousy president and wanted him out of office. So they came up with a cockamamie attempt to remove him based on an interpretation of constitutional law. I just don't see any point in reading anything more into it than that.

People want Trump impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Obama impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Bush impeached and removed from office.
People wanted Clinton impeached and removed from office.

If Hillary Clinton had become president people would be wanting her impeached and removed from office. I figure most likely they would be trying to prove she has Parkinson's disease or a similar disorder making her unfit to be president. And I also figure many would be claiming that was based on misogyny.


Well, as Obama was sent to the White House twice, apparently most Americans didn't think him lousy at all.
The fact remains, there was clear racism - some blatant, others veiled - involved in birtherism.
And for the record, if there wasn't such evidence that Trump had help from a powerful, anti-democratic leader like Putin, I wouldn't be keen on him being impeached at all. Regardless, he's either going to be a one termer, or will declare victory and resign.


It's not a fact until you provide evidence. Facts require evidence to be facts. Likewise there is no evidence that Trump received help from Putin. Everything you have said is based on conjecture rather than fact.