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Sai
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03 Sep 2017, 6:32 am

I would agree with luminifera in the sense that I'm not a fan of gender roles but it's more that I don't like the constraints that society attaches to people based on their sex / gender.

There are always going to be things that one sex is better at than the other in most cases but that shouldn't mean that it stops anyone of the opposite sex from doing it. I'm not sure if I've made myself clear there! I just don't like society telling people what they should or shouldn't do based on their sex / gender.



Dear_one
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03 Sep 2017, 7:00 am

Sai wrote:
I would agree with luminifera in the sense that I'm not a fan of gender roles but it's more that I don't like the constraints that society attaches to people based on their sex / gender.

There are always going to be things that one sex is better at than the other in most cases but that shouldn't mean that it stops anyone of the opposite sex from doing it. I'm not sure if I've made myself clear there! I just don't like society telling people what they should or shouldn't do based on their sex / gender.


I don't like being boxed in by custom, either, and I know what it is like to be working in a profession (massage) with a majority of the opposite sex. However, what people seem to miss is that humans have never had many unisex roles. We always split our work along gender lines, even if they are not always the same, and when change brings gender parity to one group, it keeps going to the opposite polarity. That is one way of keeping society interdependent. Still, there are always a few outliers admitted due to extreme talent. The reason it takes extreme talent is that slightly better talent does not make up for the disruption caused by the presence of the opposite sex. Heterosexuals just can't help treating the opposite sex differently, and it interferes with the work. It also eliminates the usual opportunities to discuss members of the opposite sex without any of them present. For men, lunch time usually suffices, but women often go to the ladies' room together during an evening out.



Evil_Chuck
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10 Sep 2017, 12:38 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
I have no problem with traditional gender roles.

Neither do I. It's become very popular to blame sexual and domestic issues on gender roles these days, but I don't go along with that. These roles exist for a reason: for the most part, they work. They are not exclusively Western, they were not created by men to control women, and they are not dangerous in and of themselves.

At the same time, though, we're all individuals and I support anyone's right to live and identify however they wish. If the role people expect you to play just doesn't work for you and you would rather "tweak" it or depart from it entirely, I say go right ahead. Whatever allows you to live happily without harming others. Good luck in your relationship, Revisitor! :)


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peregrina
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11 Sep 2017, 7:05 am

Revisitor wrote:
I believe that the traditional gender roles we adopted initially was an act to meet cultural expectations.


I totally agree. When I was a child, I would be told off for not liking girlie toys. I chose Lego sets over dolls. I also played football with my male cousins, but I wore a long skirt.

I don't care about fashion and makeup does not interest me.

Being an adult now, I still like Lego and recently heard a comment like this "It's not for girls." :roll:
Do all girls have to play with dolls and prepare to be mothers? I may appear conservative in many aspects, but deep down I don't agree with traditional gender roles.
Am I a tomboy? No.
Am I a 'woman'? Maybe.
Am I an alien? Yes.



Dear_one
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11 Sep 2017, 7:48 am

peregrina wrote:
Revisitor wrote:
I believe that the traditional gender roles we adopted initially was an act to meet cultural expectations.


I totally agree. When I was a child, I would be told off for not liking girlie toys. I chose Lego sets over dolls. I also played football with my male cousins, but I wore a long skirt.

I don't care about fashion and makeup does not interest me.

Being an adult now, I still like Lego and recently heard a comment like this "It's not for girls." :roll:
Do all girls have to play with dolls and prepare to be mothers? I may appear conservative in many aspects, but deep down I don't agree with traditional gender roles.
Am I a tomboy? No.
Am I a 'woman'? Maybe.
Am I an alien? Yes.


IMHO, the traditional roles were inherited. Women and men have somewhat different reproductive strategies, and Ma Nature favours interdependent partnerships over trying to have everyone identically adept. Mammals all have different attitudes to their mothers and fathers, and learn different things from them. However, she also experiments a lot, getting basic sexual orientation reversed about 10% of the time, and indeterminate more often. As with autism, this makes many mainstream activities problematic, but it can open up rare opportunities unavailable to others.

I have a great chart showing the proportions of straight, bi, and gay people, and how their self-image sometimes does not match, but I can't figure out how to attach it.



Lost_dragon
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11 Sep 2017, 8:30 am

Dear_one wrote:
Revisitor wrote:
Increasingly, I also believe that there is a strong correlation between gender non conformity and autism. There appears to be a far greater prevalence in the autistic community for straight people to feel uncomfortable with traditional gender roles. For many of us what's primarily wrong with the wrong planet is the traditional gender role we're expected to perform. It may be a more enlightened time if you're gay or transgender. But it's much harder not to conform if you're straight.


I think you have a variety of "everyone is somewhat like me" combined with an association between the two biggest factors that make sense of your life. Earth is overpopulated now, so there is general encouragement for anything that slows population growth. If you are taking a poll, I come out as straighter than 85% of people.


Erm, what poll have you been taking? Also, where? I find it hard to believe that 85% of people are less straight than you. Sure, maybe if you're taking this poll on a website that's predominantly LGBT, but otherwise no.


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Dear_one
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11 Sep 2017, 8:38 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
Revisitor wrote:
Increasingly, I also believe that there is a strong correlation between gender non conformity and autism. There appears to be a far greater prevalence in the autistic community for straight people to feel uncomfortable with traditional gender roles. For many of us what's primarily wrong with the wrong planet is the traditional gender role we're expected to perform. It may be a more enlightened time if you're gay or transgender. But it's much harder not to conform if you're straight.


I think you have a variety of "everyone is somewhat like me" combined with an association between the two biggest factors that make sense of your life. Earth is overpopulated now, so there is general encouragement for anything that slows population growth. If you are taking a poll, I come out as straighter than 85% of people.


Erm, what poll have you been taking? Also, where? I find it hard to believe that 85% of people are less straight than you. Sure, maybe if you're taking this poll on a website that's predominantly LGBT, but otherwise no.


MySexualOrientation.com I'm comfy around gay people because there's never any confusion. If people wonder about me, I find them amusing, so there's no point in trying to correct them.



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11 Sep 2017, 9:53 am

Dear_one wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
Revisitor wrote:
Increasingly, I also believe that there is a strong correlation between gender non conformity and autism. There appears to be a far greater prevalence in the autistic community for straight people to feel uncomfortable with traditional gender roles. For many of us what's primarily wrong with the wrong planet is the traditional gender role we're expected to perform. It may be a more enlightened time if you're gay or transgender. But it's much harder not to conform if you're straight.


I think you have a variety of "everyone is somewhat like me" combined with an association between the two biggest factors that make sense of your life. Earth is overpopulated now, so there is general encouragement for anything that slows population growth. If you are taking a poll, I come out as straighter than 85% of people.


Erm, what poll have you been taking? Also, where? I find it hard to believe that 85% of people are less straight than you. Sure, maybe if you're taking this poll on a website that's predominantly LGBT, but otherwise no.


MySexualOrientation.com I'm comfy around gay people because there's never any confusion. If people wonder about me, I find them amusing, so there's no point in trying to correct them.


Ah, that quiz. Yeah- I've taken that one before. That explains the 85% number, since I'd say that most people who take quizzes on their sexuality are at least questioning, if not gay/bi themselves and are likely to score higher/ less straight. Wonder about you how? As in they wonder if you are gay? And you find that amusing by how off base they are?


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11 Sep 2017, 9:55 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
Revisitor wrote:
Increasingly, I also believe that there is a strong correlation between gender non conformity and autism. There appears to be a far greater prevalence in the autistic community for straight people to feel uncomfortable with traditional gender roles. For many of us what's primarily wrong with the wrong planet is the traditional gender role we're expected to perform. It may be a more enlightened time if you're gay or transgender. But it's much harder not to conform if you're straight.


I think you have a variety of "everyone is somewhat like me" combined with an association between the two biggest factors that make sense of your life. Earth is overpopulated now, so there is general encouragement for anything that slows population growth. If you are taking a poll, I come out as straighter than 85% of people.


Erm, what poll have you been taking? Also, where? I find it hard to believe that 85% of people are less straight than you. Sure, maybe if you're taking this poll on a website that's predominantly LGBT, but otherwise no.


MySexualOrientation.com I'm comfy around gay people because there's never any confusion. If people wonder about me, I find them amusing, so there's no point in trying to correct them.


Ah, that quiz. Yeah- I've taken that one before. That explains the 85% number, since I'd say that most people who take quizzes on their sexuality are at least questioning, if not gay/bi themselves and are likely to score higher/ less straight. Wonder about you how? As in they wonder if you are gay? And you find that amusing by how off base they are?


And wonder you always will.