Has the LGBT community become a deranged cult?

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Reptile
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14 Jan 2018, 2:47 pm

I never saw LGBT as a community but more as a category. I am gay, hence fall into that category but that doesn’t make me a part or a member of any community. People who fall under said categories are all different and not a hive mind. They have very different political standpoints, experiences and lives. Being gay, bisexual or transsexual is NOT a political agenda, ideology or a political tool as the feminist SJW idiots are trying to abuse it as.

Being gay doesn’t make me relate to a left-wing pride flag waving guy who exposes himself in his underwear at pride parades nor can I relate to some archconservative Christian dude who struggles to accept himself and is full of guilt and self-hatred even though all three of us are men attracted to fellow men. I can much more relate to the really good straight friend I have who has similar interests and values as I have for example, even though I am not straight and he’s not gay.

A community as many want to paint it as doesn’t exist from my experience and my point of view but maybe this is just not important enough for me to try and bond with people over identity politics and that’s why I can’t see the supposed “community” here.

The loud screeching aggressive SJW types you’re mentioning are all holding a specific political agenda and I would associate them with their political ideology and not with any specific demographic or sexual minority. People with such radical political views are only a small, tiny minority within the people who fall into the LGBT category, just as people with extremely radical political views are minorities within the general population as well.
The problem is that they scream the loudest and get the most awareness and often use extreme measures to get what they want and are a danger, in this case especially to the average LGBT people who just want to live peacefully in society and with the majority and not fight a war against the society and attack the majority like feminazis and SJW’s do it, what leads to the majority feeling threatened and under attack and will someday lead to them counter attacking but not only the SJW types then but everyone who is different and outside the norm somehow in return. Those SJW’s might ruin everything for LGBT people!


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modaldragon
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15 Jan 2018, 12:08 pm

Yes, the LGBT community is political, but in my opinion, everything is inherently political. One person's idea of basic human rights (eg: trans people should be allowed to use the correct restroom) is another person's idea of politics (some people think that arguing for trans rights is more of an opinion than a moral justice). I think that if we took away all parts of the LGBT community that could be considered political and opinion-based, then there wouldn't be much of a community left. You might not agree that (for example) there are several genders (eg: demigirl, demiboy, agender, genderfluid, etc) but for some people (including myself) we consider the existence of those genders to be fact, not opinion. To take away anything that could be considered opinion would be impossible, because different people have different opinions on where to draw the line between moral fact and political opinion! Even the discussion of who can belong in the LGBT community (eg: are asexuals allowed? are nonbinary people allowed?) is controversial, and making a definite decision either way will cause a lot of people to be unhappy.



modaldragon
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15 Jan 2018, 12:10 pm

And of course, some people who belong to the LGBT category still don't see themselves as part of the LGBT community. (though I would personally consider myself part of the community).



Kristaok
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28 Jan 2018, 2:46 pm

I've met some kind individuals that were a part of the lgbtq, but most I've seen are radical extremists, very cult like. The lgbtq is on a rampage to censor anyone that opposes their little belief system, they cry hate speech, bigot, hater, homophobe, etc. it's okay that they ridicule straight people and Christians but it's not okay, for straights and Christians to say no we don't agree with your lifestyle.

Why can't the lgbtq just live their lives? Why must they try and force themselves down others throats?



MariaTheFictionkin
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28 Jan 2018, 3:14 pm

I see this in a lot of communities, especially those I'm part of. People want to be an elitists, make silly rules which basically banish anyone who lives a different lifestyle not suitable enough for the community as if it's giving a bad name to people of the LGBTQ. Basically these communities get turned into an organized faith becoming nothing more than a hierarchy, with things like the "I'm more gay than you!" mentality and so forth. Clique-y stuff. Hence why I avoid communities which support my sexual orientation specifically because it's nothing but a bunch of elitists and bad-mouthers who want to make people feel even worse for the way they are. I've gotten more backlash from those communities than I do support. I rather just hang around kink-related areas and find people who share the same orientation as me and are on the same level.

It's like what happened to feminism, it became into something that it shouldn't be. LGBTQ is going down the same road, and soon probably by part of the acre will be tumbling down the road as well. It's embarrassing and sad.


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Aniihya
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30 Jan 2018, 6:53 am

Kristaok, how about you stop being ignorant of your surroundings and look how intolerant people are about the LGBT and try to force their beliefs down people's throats that they are sinning, before you claim that the LGBT is forcing their views down people's throats. It is a reactionary position coming from centuries of hate and torment towards LGBT people. Some people manage it with patience, peace and love, but others are fed up and are defending themselves against conservative bullying.



Sonnenblumen13
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19 Feb 2018, 6:35 pm

Yeah. Even as a transgender person I'm so sick of the Tumblr SJWs. While I do think that it's wrong to hate or discriminate against groups of people, I am appalled at the LGBT communities general disrespect for the right to free speech. This is precisely the reason why I call myself a libertarian. Before, I would've called myself an anarcho-communist. But anarchists today are not *real* anarchists. They are mostly groups like Antifa that try to impose their views on others. Anarchy means freedom. Not just for some, but for all. I can't get behind the idea that anyone's speech should be restricted just because I disagree with them. The LGBT community can't seem to see past their own ideology into others.


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Embla
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20 Feb 2018, 7:17 am

I think it's a pretty natural reaction. Like with all political issues, when someone on the right side makes a radical statement, someone on the left side will comeback with an even more radical statement and it only goes back and forth from there, making everything worse and worse.
It's why people are starting to believe that everyone on the left are naive treehuggers who wants open borders and for the whole world to be gay, and that everyone on the right are racist conformists who only cares about their own wealth. We all know it's not true, but because the loudest and craziest people are the ones who gets heard, we start to forget that most people are moderate.



infinitenull
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20 Feb 2018, 10:31 am

Sonnenblumen13 wrote:
Yeah. Even as a transgender person I'm so sick of the Tumblr SJWs. While I do think that it's wrong to hate or discriminate against groups of people, I am appalled at the LGBT communities general disrespect for the right to free speech. This is precisely the reason why I call myself a libertarian. Before, I would've called myself an anarcho-communist. But anarchists today are not *real* anarchists. They are mostly groups like Antifa that try to impose their views on others. Anarchy means freedom. Not just for some, but for all. I can't get behind the idea that anyone's speech should be restricted just because I disagree with them. The LGBT community can't seem to see past their own ideology into others.


Well I think there are a couple of differences here. Much of the SJW movement does leak its way into authoritarian leftist points of view "let's make a law to keep control of the biggots and greedy people"... I do see it, and they are noisy and they are a problem... but not all of us who identify as SJWs insist that we need to progress society by the means of government. I think candid discussion has done a ton for society without the need for incompetent government to get involved. Compare what the #metoo movement is doing with what the marriage equality efforts did. In the end marriage equality put a bandaid on a failed system that prioritized amatonormativity with tax breaks and special privileges by including 1 marginalized group. Whereas the metoo movement has people discussing and realizing that we do have a problem with sexual harassment and predatory behavior in our world and it shouldn't be acceptable and needs to stop. We don't need to make laws to stop sexual harassment, we need to open up the discourse and make the invisible visible.

While there are some in the SJW movement who do say that those who disagree shouldn't speak at all, it's only a fraction of us who identify with the concept that feel this way. Many of us think that those who disagree should speak more because it'll make it clearer to those in the middle and in the margins that their logic is seriously lacking. For example, I LOVE when someone like Kristaok speaks (post above) because their point of view seems absurd and offensive and will help those who feel similar to look inward and decide if they want to sound just as confrontational.

Also note... while we all have a right to free speech granted to us by the government, that also includes those who want to use their free speech to tell us to shut up! As long as they don't use force or manipulate the government to censor that free speech or they do so in channels that they own (like forums, blogs, etc) then its their right to do.

OK... sorry.... soapbox moment there a little... :oops: and I kind of spoke to more than just what you mention above... but hopefully it's OK.


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Vatnos
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27 Feb 2018, 1:37 pm

I think a lot of us on the economic left resent the screechy tumblr types. I can't help but think the queer rights/women's rights movement have deliberately been commercialized and distorted in a way to make all of the left look as unpalatable as possible, so that the owners of society can keep all their serfs in line.

I mean, that's not idle speculation. That's a historical fact. Social issues have been used for centuries to keep the working class divided.

It is also true that there are manipulative people who will sneak into any well-meaning movement and use the space created in it to foment their own insular ideology that undermines the rest of the movement. This has always been a problem as well and it's a difficult one to fight.



Arkena
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20 Mar 2018, 1:47 am

Personally i think the hysterical unthinking form of expression the OP refers to is not representative of any of the LGBT community i have met. The dangers of social media is that it is not necessarily representative of a community or the world. There are no filters or people watching saying "this is irational or severly biased and distorts the facts".

Eg: A lot of alt right vids are useless for a fair view as they distort things so much based on their agenda like anti LGBT etc. They are dedicated to showing their opponents as irational and mock them etc.

Its like saying the world is a dangerous place cause the news shows crimes every day. Thats not how it works...

Seperating the rational people from the idiots can be tough but youve got to just think about it and realise there are a lot of loud idiots out there.



aspietrance
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21 Mar 2018, 5:14 am

I have long been a very active leftie and feminist, and I agree that the transactivist community has become a deranged cult.

While I of course believe in equal rights and freedom from harassment and violence for everyone, and have empathy for the fact that people who identify as trans are suffering, the fact is that it is NOT just a few extreme shouters who are the problem. Almost all of the allies on the left have been brainwashed into using tactics of harassment and violence and non-platforming to anyone who dares question.

How do I know? I am an aspie whose superpower is that I see patterns, and I suspect there is an agenda behind the enormous amount of attention that has been showered on what is supposedly just a tiny number of people. Most certainly has to do with the massive amount of money made by Big Medicine on these people. There are so many problems with this ideology, starting with the transing of young children who are encouraged into a lifestyle that will make them lifelong dependent on harmful drugs and mutilated bodies and sterility; and, the normalization of the idea that gender stereotypes are real. Ok so I wrote a very well-researched and way too long (admittably, brevity is not my forte, which I suspect is an aspie trait) blog about it which I posted to my own fb wall. I made sure to point out that I have nothing against trans people but am concerned about these and other issues. One of my "friends" posted it without permission to a political group for my city and I was personally insulted in the most grotesque ways, and my business boycotted, by about 1000 people. I have been afraid my house will be burned down.

I have lost almost all of my friends. Full. Stop. None of them bothered to read the article or actually respond to any of my points.

The internet is awash in horrendous threats of violence and murder against anyone who questions even a little of these dogmas including "the penis can be a female organ" and "we should say 'pregnant people' because 'mothers' is offensive to trans people" and "talking about abortion or p*****s is offensive to trans women". This is Orwell at its finest. Anti-scientific, anti-common sense, and leading up to the total erasure of women as a class and therefore our ability to organise against the issues we still face as females.

Even Derrick Jensen the great environmental hero has been banned from speaking because he questioned the wisdom of letting any man who claims to identify as female into rape shelters and female prisons.

In reading this thread, I have become hopeful that I have come to the right place, because this incredibly contentious topic has been discussed without any threats or insults or labels. In reading other threads here on contentious topics I have noticed the same thing. Could it be that aspies are a more logical, tolerant bunch, more resistant to brain washing and black-and-white thinking, and less able to devolve into illogical insults in place of rational discussion?

If anyone is interested in reading this overly long tome (I am wondering if aspies have longer attentions spans for overly long posts lol) let me know and I'll post it.



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19 Apr 2018, 7:47 pm

Just because a group of people are a "fringe" minority doesn't mean we should ignore the damage they still do. I find it a little hard to imagine aspietrance, the poster above, would still feel at home by still identifying as leftist. In the western world, the mainstream left has become very radical and bigoted (That's not just rhetoric, it has been my personal experience trying to discuss an issue with anyone identifying with the left today), so if they really believe what they claim about the "fringes" of the left being a dangerous problem, that might as well make them look like moderate conservatives. :?



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21 Apr 2018, 6:06 am

The left have certainly become scary and violent. Where as the right is dangerous to minorities and those who threaten their fundamentalist ways, the left is dangerous to those who do not subscribe to each and every talking point that they are CURRENTLY prescribing. Unfortunately what this does is makes it tougher for someone like Aspietrance above to understand why it is that some of the things they're uncomfortable with are actually incredibly important for those of us who actually do experience life as transgender people. If someone were to reply to Aspietrance's accusations of trans existence being driven by big medicine by telling them that they're evil and bigoted and a trump supporter in hiding then all that does is strengthen the point of view that being transgender is irrational. The truth is, only a small portion of the medical community is even willing to participate in our healthcare due to the political stigma, and fear of malpractice lawsuits. The government has provided so many stupid rules and laws around care that it's far too risky to provide the much needed healthcare that trans people require. There are a few who educate themselves and make a career out of helping us out... and those people are probably indeed really benefiting from that kind of specialty as anyone who specializes should. I do suspect with the fact that many have to pay cash for medical treatment that they have to be affordable though so I can't imagine that it's much better than opening a family practice, but I'm not a doctor and I really have no interest in the business of healthcare.

I read aspietrance's post and I see a TERF (which is admittedly an intentionally harsh sounding accusing word). The arguments are much like the talking points of other Trans Exclusionary Radical Femininsts. So indeed they are doing the same as anyone else in these arguments. Heck I am technically doing the same in my arguments above. "much needed healthcare" is very much a talking point phrase for my point of view on the issue. Then again, as a Libertarian I had to also add a talking point about how the government it stupid :p

I do appreciate the rhetoric in this thread though! It's been really nice to have a real conversation about this stuff ♥


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vaguelyhumanoid
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11 Jun 2018, 7:05 pm

The real "deranged cult" (I'd never use that particular term in discourse) is all the young people being indoctrinated into far-right, anti-self-expression ideology by manufactured outrage and lurid conspiracy theories about sinister feminists oppressing straight dudes.

Find me one example of somebody being beat to death for not being transgender. One.

Find me one example of a 13 year old being kicked out onto the street for not being gay. One.

Find me one nation in the world where heterosexual sex is illegal and homosexual sex is legal. One.

It's like looking for reports of marijuana overdose deaths. You're just not going to find them, because they don't exist.



Spooky_Mulder
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11 Jun 2018, 7:43 pm

vaguelyhumanoid wrote:
The real "deranged cult" (I'd never use that particular term in discourse) is all the young people being indoctrinated into far-right, anti-self-expression ideology by manufactured outrage and lurid conspiracy theories about sinister feminists oppressing straight dudes.

Find me one example of somebody being beat to death for not being transgender. One.

Find me one example of a 13 year old being kicked out onto the street for not being gay. One.

Find me one nation in the world where heterosexual sex is illegal and homosexual sex is legal. One.

It's like looking for reports of marijuana overdose deaths. You're just not going to find them, because they don't exist.


/\ This 110%

Unfortunately a childhood (and now ex-) friend of mine recently jointed the alt-right cult. It was someone I least expected would as well, thus it's especially shocking and I'm still processing it. I still don't understand what could ever inspire anyone to take on Nazi ideology.