People in relationships don't understand

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Hmm, I guess your friends are different than mine. In my groups of all couples, I'm always the one left out. Hangouts always starts out fine. But very shortly into each hangout, it's immediately made clear, intentionally or not, that they're a "real group" (of couples), and I'm just "some guy". It's interesting to note than single women, on occasions when they show up, are treated as "real", but single men are not.

Now, these situations don't happen when I hang out with just one couple. It seems like with so few people in a group, rationality prevails, and they find it within themselves to treat the single guy with some modicum of decency. But whenever multiple couples come together, NT groupthink takes over, emotions run high, and all decency goes right out the window. In which case, I become a second-class citizen.

Over time, being in those situations caused me to develop a strong visceral revulsion to sexual contact. Becoming Red Pilled is a strong contributing factor as well. I still like hugging, holding hands, and cuddling with women who are platonic friends, and I can handle kissing if I'm drunk, but absolutely nothing beyond that. I suppose that's a blessing in disguise: I saved nearly $1000 this year by not having sex with escorts.

Right now, I'm at a point of wanting to permanently sever ties with my long-time friends, due to how I feel whenever I hang out with them. I'm keeping some semblance of friendship with them, due to a combination of aspie loyalty and a sliver of hope that they'll stop being so cliquish. At the same time, I'm not holding my breath for it, and I found new social outlets, where being a couple isn't viewed as some sort of gold standard.

You are forgetting that the third point in the triangle gets to have a preference. My husband has no interest in hanging out with me and a female friend. He feels left out. He doesn't see my friends as being his friends and he doesn't like listening to two women catch up. Some guys like to hang with their wives friends, some don't. Mine does not unless there is a husband for him to talk to. He's a shy and awkward guy (ASD). I don't force him into social situations that make him uncomfortable.

If I were to host a larger gathering it wouldn't matter. I don't see a need to be sure a group of 6 is all couples. But I don't host larger gatherings.

Basically, I'm just bad at maintaining friendships of any sort. I dislike that about myself. It isn't like we're busy socializing with couple friends either. We just don't get out much at all. We're an ASD spectrum family; what would you expect?

Hmm, I guess your friends are different than mine. In my groups of all couples, I'm always the one left out. Hangouts always starts out fine. But very shortly into each hangout, it's immediately made clear, intentionally or not, that they're a "real group" (of couples), and I'm just "some guy". It's interesting to note than single women, on occasions when they show up, are treated as "real", but single men are not.

Now, these situations don't happen when I hang out with just one couple. It seems like with so few people in a group, rationality prevails, and they find it within themselves to treat the single guy with some modicum of decency. But whenever multiple couples come together, NT groupthink takes over, emotions run high, and all decency goes right out the window. In which case, I become a second-class citizen.

Over time, being in those situations caused me to develop a strong visceral revulsion to sexual contact. Becoming Red Pilled is a strong contributing factor as well. I still like hugging, holding hands, and cuddling with women who are platonic friends, and I can handle kissing if I'm drunk, but absolutely nothing beyond that. I suppose that's a blessing in disguise: I saved nearly $1000 this year by not having sex with escorts.

Right now, I'm at a point of wanting to permanently sever ties with my long-time friends, due to how I feel whenever I hang out with them. I'm keeping some semblance of friendship with them, due to a combination of aspie loyalty and a sliver of hope that they'll stop being so cliquish. At the same time, I'm not holding my breath for it, and I found new social outlets, where being a couple isn't viewed as some sort of gold standard.

Ah yes I understand the husband being bored with a couple of women catching up.

My 'friends' have little groups over to each other's houses or to go out and don't include me. There would be more than one husband for the husbands to talk to.

Hm, I don't know what to tell you. Have you tried talking to them about it? Sometimes these differences arise from misunderstandings.

I think you need to tell your friends how you feel. Separately; outside of a group social situation. Based on how they respond either they can choose to try harder to make you feel welcome, or you can mutually agree that in your current life spaces the friendship isn't really serving you both.

Ah, the old "jus' tell 'em how you feel" platitude. Take my word for it: I already told my friends. And as individuals, they've been great at being respectful at least in outward actions. Their girlfriends, slightly less so, but good enough. But you're overlooking how powerful NT groupthink can be; powerful enough to override respect, loyalty, and human decency. Because even though individuals may think fairly well of me, the group of couples collectively believes that single men are losers. So when you have the group gathered in one room, with one single man (me) in their midst, you know what happens. Also, my friends will absolutely never agree to do anything without their girlfriends, so suggesting a guys' night is out of the question.

I suppose I shouldn't be too hard on my friends or their girlfriends. After all, I have the same visceral loathing toward relationships as the group of couples collectively has toward single men. It's really the same feeling, only toward different targets. Still, my biggest gripe with all this, is that the group treats single women as "honorary couples" of sorts, but is hostile to single men. Any insights on why?

Maybe they do understand or appreciate it to an extent, but they don't care deeply enough. Not to sound horrible, I'm sure as a friend she does care about you, but realistically, other people have their own lives and their own problems and they don't tend to sink much time into being deeply affected by another's unhappiness.

I haven't observed that myself, but when it happens it may simply be a chain reaction from the fact that often the women form the social core in a group, and they relate easier to other women than to other men. Women are also going to be cautious reaching out to single men least their male partners get jealous; it depends on what they know of their partners. Whoever is hosting the gathering is responsible for making sure everyone is, in fact, included, but your friends may be turning that duty over to their girl friends without, well, telling their girl friends they've done so. I've noticed that with some guys; the minute they have a female partner they don't feel the need to be the host anymore, although they may not consciously realize they've abdicated the job. In young relationships that can create some sticky situations, so maybe that is the problem you are facing.

is probably why single women aren't pariahs of the group, like single men are.

You're winding me up right? You'reTotally ignoring the fact that a SINGLE WOMAN started this thread! A single woman who has female friends that also get treated like pariahs.

Seriously. How often do single women get invited into your friend group!?

I think DWamom has a point about the jealousy. I get on with men well and I feel like that's bad in the wife's eyes. She doesn't want her husband getting on well with me.

Maybe yours is less female-centric than mine. In my group, any woman is generally treated as an equal. They don't come often, but often enough for me to observe the difference in how they're treated, and they're long-time friends of the women, although I think one woman is new. A single man, however, is subtly, non-verbally told that he's a second-class citizen. So I don't even know anymore.

Are there ever other single men in these groups than you? Are they treated the same way as you are?