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League_Girl
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14 Nov 2017, 12:12 pm

The truth is no one can do anything. Even NTs can't do anything or else everyone would be artists and going out in outer space or being engineers.

I don't like being told I can do anything either or otherwise I could do college or be a psychologist or a nurse, anything that requires schooling and getting a degree. With learning issues I had in school and understanding the material and what I am reading and knowing what I should write and troubles with abstract things, how can I do college? Then there is employment where you need experience and need social network of friends and they create all these roadblocks for getting a job and how stressful it is to get one because you need to know where to start. I also don't handle stress well either and need time to recharge and have time for myself. I also do not do well with demands.

People either overestimate me or underestimate me and it's annoying.

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Joe90, a bit off topic, I come across a significant number of people who manage to work full-time at jobs they hate. Or they work 50 plus hours a week, admittedly in jobs they find stressful at times. Some of these folks have long commutes, children, active social lives, volunteer commitments, and on and on. It baffles my mind. How do these people not have daily breakdowns, panic attacks, meltdowns, rages, whatever, in response to their stress and lack of freedom? I realize not everyone can live their lifestyle, and my anxiety takes a huge toll. Still, I feel inferior at times.



I do not understand this either. I suspect people mean differently when they say something is stressful. When I say something is stressful, I mean it creates anxiety, it makes me cranky, I have a hard time functioning and I am a b***h and hard to be with and I am screaming at everyone and everything annoys me. This is what stress is and I don't see NTs acting this way when under stress because they can still function and still be parents and do other normal things than needing alone time and doing their hobby to relax. What is stress like for NTs and how does it feel to them? Do people have behavior when they are under stress? I doubt it or else this would be socially acceptable and I wouldn't have a disability and collecting Social Security. If stress doesn't cause me any of this, I am not stressed out nor do I find it stressful.

I know for my mother when she is truly stressed, she had diarrhea, gets sick to her stomach, hair falls out. I know people tend to gain weight from stress so yeah it affects NTs too but differently. Some even drink or do drugs and even some NTs don't handle stress well and that is where they need to seek help when it's impacting their life and giving them distress and others around them. That is stress.


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Leahcar
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14 Nov 2017, 4:25 pm

I get you.
I absolutely hate it when people have a go at me because I'm sorta book smart, but somehow have very little common sense or independence.
I don't know. It makes me feel hopeless.


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xatrix26
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15 Nov 2017, 12:19 am

I get this all the time and especially when I was younger. NTs try to turn my high intelligence into some sort of insult. People used to call me "Rain Man" all the time because of the way I can recite information in perfect order and in precisely accurate fasion.

Some NTs view me as some sort of threat and attempt to turn my advantages into an insult. When some find out then I have above-average intelligence they automatically assume that I can hack the stock market and they wonder why I'm not fabulously rich or something. Because I do not have a love of money like most do my forte was computer science, quantum physics and political analysis. But tremendous social difficulties and severe anxieties have prevented me from really capitalizing on any of these strengths.

It is extremely irritating and very insulting


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xatrix26
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15 Nov 2017, 12:24 am

League_Girl wrote:
I also don't handle stress well either and need time to recharge and have time for myself. I also do not do well with demands.

People either overestimate me or underestimate me and it's annoying.


I totally get you here and agree with you 100% because I feel the exact same way. :cry:


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15 Nov 2017, 10:10 am

Yes! My father was always guilty of doing that kind of thing to me. My mother isn't much better. I have a HFA diagnosis but in some ways, I'm sort of low functioning. I go to school, but require a lot of supports in and out of class. I can't really be on my own. My mother even considers my 14-year-old sister "supervision" for me, meaning she is even more mature than me. I'm 23 but I definitely have the mindset of someone much younger. I have tried to work but have failed at 19 part time jobs (I last about three weeks on average). My therapist even thinks it is a long shot that I will ever be able to live on my own, but when he was around, my father always wanted me to move out and get a place of my own. It caused constant tension between him and my mother. I have been having meltdowns more frequently because of traumatic events that have occurred recently and stress. I have been non-verbal for about a day, and it's hard for my family to understand, even though my therapist has explained it to them about a million times. My therapist has also explained my abilities well to my family but they still have trouble accepting it and I don't blame them because I can't even imagine how hard it must be for them.


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plainjain
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16 Nov 2017, 5:25 pm

yes, MaxwellS, that sort of thing is annoying.

To think that the term "high functioning" means anything particularly good is mistaken.

It only refers to an "intelligence level" above 70, which has been measured using a standardized test, and amongst medical people generally is taken to mean that intelligence is below some other people who have taken the test. It's one of three measures used to determine mental retardation, or intellectual disability; the other two being that the person has limited adaptation skills, and that the onset of these other two issues occurred before age 18.

High functioning doesn't mean that you are a whiz kid, or highly capable, or highly intelligent. It doesn't even mean that you are capable of holding down a job, or driving a car.

It just means that medical and educational professionals can rule out mental retardation/intellectual disability. It just means that a person with an I.Q. of below 70 is apparently below average in intelligence, when compared to others in the same age group who also took the same I.Q. test. I say apparently, because people even argue as to the fairness and accuracy of any I.Q. testing, since it's been proven that people with different backgrounds might perform very differently than expected when taking these tests.

Someone with a lot of anxiety revolving around test taking, for example, or for whom the test language is not in their mother tongue, could get a less than accurate result.

When I was evaluated for autism, the psychologist also tested my intelligence, along with a bunch of other things, and found that I have average intelligence. This was actually comforting to me, since I'd always been told that I was "so smart" and criticized for not doing very well academically, or with other activities I tried.

Some of the other areas he tested me in, I was below average, or not "normal", or "typical". That's how I was diagnosed with autism, ADHD, anxiety, and pervasive depressive disorder.

Autism isn't the same thing as intellectual disability/mental retardation.

According to the DSM-5, autism "Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning." Furthermore, the DSM-5 specifically states, "These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay."

I want you to know that when people are judging you for being "high functioning", they are not taking into account autism, only intelligence. The whole reason autism is autism is because you may have a normal, or above average intelligence, but still be unable to achieve the same level of functioning as a neuro-typical person, in areas other than reading comprehension, for example.

If you could, you wouldn't be autistic.



LostGirI
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17 Nov 2017, 8:38 am

plainjain wrote:
yes, MaxwellS, that sort of thing is annoying.

To think that the term "high functioning" means anything particularly good is mistaken.

It only refers to an "intelligence level" above 70, which has been measured using a standardized test, and amongst medical people generally is taken to mean that intelligence is below some other people who have taken the test. It's one of three measures used to determine mental retardation, or intellectual disability; the other two being that the person has limited adaptation skills, and that the onset of these other two issues occurred before age 18.

High functioning doesn't mean that you are a whiz kid, or highly capable, or highly intelligent. It doesn't even mean that you are capable of holding down a job, or driving a car.

It just means that medical and educational professionals can rule out mental retardation/intellectual disability. It just means that a person with an I.Q. of below 70 is apparently below average in intelligence, when compared to others in the same age group who also took the same I.Q. test. I say apparently, because people even argue as to the fairness and accuracy of any I.Q. testing, since it's been proven that people with different backgrounds might perform very differently than expected when taking these tests.

Someone with a lot of anxiety revolving around test taking, for example, or for whom the test language is not in their mother tongue, could get a less than accurate result.

When I was evaluated for autism, the psychologist also tested my intelligence, along with a bunch of other things, and found that I have average intelligence. This was actually comforting to me, since I'd always been told that I was "so smart" and criticized for not doing very well academically, or with other activities I tried.

Some of the other areas he tested me in, I was below average, or not "normal", or "typical". That's how I was diagnosed with autism, ADHD, anxiety, and pervasive depressive disorder.

Autism isn't the same thing as intellectual disability/mental retardation.

According to the DSM-5, autism "Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning." Furthermore, the DSM-5 specifically states, "These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay."

I want you to know that when people are judging you for being "high functioning", they are not taking into account autism, only intelligence. The whole reason autism is autism is because you may have a normal, or above average intelligence, but still be unable to achieve the same level of functioning as a neuro-typical person, in areas other than reading comprehension, for example.

If you could, you wouldn't be autistic.


After reading your post all I can think and feel is that ASD really sucks. It's what you wrote about not being able to achieve the level of functioning as NTs and being significantly impaired in social situations and the workplace etc. It's so frustrating, because it's not like I don't want to do things like work without it burning me out and causing anxiety and all the rest and it must be the same for others. But my mother said to me the other day that everything happens for a reason and this is just where I'm meant to be at and I'll have to accept that this is what I can manage and accept the things I can't. It is so frustrating. I'm thinking more about my job because I just don't see how I'm going to be able to do it anymore.


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plainjain
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17 Nov 2017, 1:16 pm

LostGirI wrote:

After reading your post all I can think and feel is that ASD really sucks. It's what you wrote about not being able to achieve the level of functioning as NTs and being significantly impaired in social situations and the workplace etc. It's so frustrating, because it's not like I don't want to do things like work without it burning me out and causing anxiety and all the rest and it must be the same for others. But my mother said to me the other day that everything happens for a reason and this is just where I'm meant to be at and I'll have to accept that this is what I can manage and accept the things I can't. It is so frustrating. I'm thinking more about my job because I just don't see how I'm going to be able to do it anymore.


I think you're right, ASD kind of sucks in a lot of ways. I completely relate to your descriptions of work, especially. I haven't had a regular job since 2005, and I'm not confident at all that I could work every day like the average person can. But I think about it every single day . . . that I should be working. Everyone else seems to work. That I should have friends. Everyone else seems to have friends. But I just can't.

I know from my own work history that I've never been able to keep a job for very long, and it's almost always ended because of social difficulties . . . not because I couldn't perform the job duties. I know from decades of experience, I feel more "trapped" and "confused" in social settings with "friends" than I feel "happy" and "refreshed".

I've tried and tried to fake it, and get it right, and I'm never successful.

I do like what your mom said. There are some things that we can manage, and maybe it's worth it to work towards arranging our lives to include mostly those things, and avoid the things that are intolerable. While it is difficult to accept that maybe we can't achieve what it seems like most people can, I think you should go easy on yourself. The "D" in ASD means "disorder" and it is a "developmental disability".

If you met someone with a "physical disability" of some kind, say the person didn't have hands, you wouldn't expect the person to just "cope", and try as hard as they could to act like people who did have hands, and do all of the things that people with hands can do. You wouldn't expect them to become an expert typist, just because other people can become expert typists. The physically disabled person might be able to make some progress toward a goal like that if they got extra accommodations and support . . . maybe some awesome robot hands or something.

That's the same with someone who has a developmental disability. We might need extra accommodations and support, that's all. I know it's frustrating, and I think it's sometimes harder to accept because it's not a disability that can be seen . . . unless you look at my resume', with an employment record of years and years worth of jobs that didn't last a year - or something like that.

So . . . yeah, I know how you feel, I think, about wanting to work, and not feeling capable of achieving that, and then comparing yourself to "everyone else". But maybe if you try to think of the invisible parts of autism that are causing you trouble, like the anxiety, you can try to think of accommodations or supports that might help you do better?

Maybe someday they will develop a "robot socializer" for us people with autism, and then we can do it.

Take it easy.



LostGirI
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17 Nov 2017, 1:34 pm

plainjain wrote:
LostGirI wrote:

After reading your post all I can think and feel is that ASD really sucks. It's what you wrote about not being able to achieve the level of functioning as NTs and being significantly impaired in social situations and the workplace etc. It's so frustrating, because it's not like I don't want to do things like work without it burning me out and causing anxiety and all the rest and it must be the same for others. But my mother said to me the other day that everything happens for a reason and this is just where I'm meant to be at and I'll have to accept that this is what I can manage and accept the things I can't. It is so frustrating. I'm thinking more about my job because I just don't see how I'm going to be able to do it anymore.


I think you're right, ASD kind of sucks in a lot of ways. I completely relate to your descriptions of work, especially. I haven't had a regular job since 2005, and I'm not confident at all that I could work every day like the average person can. But I think about it every single day . . . that I should be working. Everyone else seems to work. That I should have friends. Everyone else seems to have friends. But I just can't.

I know from my own work history that I've never been able to keep a job for very long, and it's almost always ended because of social difficulties . . . not because I couldn't perform the job duties. I know from decades of experience, I feel more "trapped" and "confused" in social settings with "friends" than I feel "happy" and "refreshed".

I've tried and tried to fake it, and get it right, and I'm never successful.

I do like what your mom said. There are some things that we can manage, and maybe it's worth it to work towards arranging our lives to include mostly those things, and avoid the things that are intolerable. While it is difficult to accept that maybe we can't achieve what it seems like most people can, I think you should go easy on yourself. The "D" in ASD means "disorder" and it is a "developmental disability".

If you met someone with a "physical disability" of some kind, say the person didn't have hands, you wouldn't expect the person to just "cope", and try as hard as they could to act like people who did have hands, and do all of the things that people with hands can do. You wouldn't expect them to become an expert typist, just because other people can become expert typists. The physically disabled person might be able to make some progress toward a goal like that if they got extra accommodations and support . . . maybe some awesome robot hands or something.

That's the same with someone who has a developmental disability. We might need extra accommodations and support, that's all. I know it's frustrating, and I think it's sometimes harder to accept because it's not a disability that can be seen . . . unless you look at my resume', with an employment record of years and years worth of jobs that didn't last a year - or something like that.

So . . . yeah, I know how you feel, I think, about wanting to work, and not feeling capable of achieving that, and then comparing yourself to "everyone else". But maybe if you try to think of the invisible parts of autism that are causing you trouble, like the anxiety, you can try to think of accommodations or supports that might help you do better?

Maybe someday they will develop a "robot socializer" for us people with autism, and then we can do it.

Take it easy.


It's like you say, every day you think you should be working and doing this and that. They can probably help me with anxiety by giving me set shifts and a set area to work in rather than having me move about all over the place. But I'm still going to have my colleagues and the social aspect, and all the noise and things I feel I sould be doing like trying to be part of the team and get involved with the chit chat. But it just exhausts me. I don't know what it is I dread so much or why. It's like I want to be there and involved but at the same time I don't cos I just can't take it. I guess god has other plans for me, because more than likely I am going to lose this job. My previous two jobs when I first qualified only lasted a couple of months each. I've been here nearly 3 years but off sick for over half the time with anxiety and depression. So I guess that should tell me something hey.


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plainjain
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17 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

LostGirI wrote:
plainjain wrote:
LostGirI wrote:

After reading your post all I can think and feel is that ASD really sucks. It's what you wrote about not being able to achieve the level of functioning as NTs and being significantly impaired in social situations and the workplace etc. It's so frustrating, because it's not like I don't want to do things like work without it burning me out and causing anxiety and all the rest and it must be the same for others. But my mother said to me the other day that everything happens for a reason and this is just where I'm meant to be at and I'll have to accept that this is what I can manage and accept the things I can't. It is so frustrating. I'm thinking more about my job because I just don't see how I'm going to be able to do it anymore.


I think you're right, ASD kind of sucks in a lot of ways. I completely relate to your descriptions of work, especially. I haven't had a regular job since 2005, and I'm not confident at all that I could work every day like the average person can. But I think about it every single day . . . that I should be working. Everyone else seems to work. That I should have friends. Everyone else seems to have friends. But I just can't.

I know from my own work history that I've never been able to keep a job for very long, and it's almost always ended because of social difficulties . . . not because I couldn't perform the job duties. I know from decades of experience, I feel more "trapped" and "confused" in social settings with "friends" than I feel "happy" and "refreshed".

I've tried and tried to fake it, and get it right, and I'm never successful.

I do like what your mom said. There are some things that we can manage, and maybe it's worth it to work towards arranging our lives to include mostly those things, and avoid the things that are intolerable. While it is difficult to accept that maybe we can't achieve what it seems like most people can, I think you should go easy on yourself. The "D" in ASD means "disorder" and it is a "developmental disability".

If you met someone with a "physical disability" of some kind, say the person didn't have hands, you wouldn't expect the person to just "cope", and try as hard as they could to act like people who did have hands, and do all of the things that people with hands can do. You wouldn't expect them to become an expert typist, just because other people can become expert typists. The physically disabled person might be able to make some progress toward a goal like that if they got extra accommodations and support . . . maybe some awesome robot hands or something.

That's the same with someone who has a developmental disability. We might need extra accommodations and support, that's all. I know it's frustrating, and I think it's sometimes harder to accept because it's not a disability that can be seen . . . unless you look at my resume', with an employment record of years and years worth of jobs that didn't last a year - or something like that.

So . . . yeah, I know how you feel, I think, about wanting to work, and not feeling capable of achieving that, and then comparing yourself to "everyone else". But maybe if you try to think of the invisible parts of autism that are causing you trouble, like the anxiety, you can try to think of accommodations or supports that might help you do better?

Maybe someday they will develop a "robot socializer" for us people with autism, and then we can do it.

Take it easy.


It's like you say, every day you think you should be working and doing this and that. They can probably help me with anxiety by giving me set shifts and a set area to work in rather than having me move about all over the place. But I'm still going to have my colleagues and the social aspect, and all the noise and things I feel I sould be doing like trying to be part of the team and get involved with the chit chat. But it just exhausts me. I don't know what it is I dread so much or why. It's like I want to be there and involved but at the same time I don't cos I just can't take it. I guess god has other plans for me, because more than likely I am going to lose this job. My previous two jobs when I first qualified only lasted a couple of months each. I've been here nearly 3 years but off sick for over half the time with anxiety and depression. So I guess that should tell me something hey.


Yeah, that's probably the worst part, is that you question yourself every single day, despite knowing how much you're actually struggling, and then occasionally other people come along and imply that you "seem" capable, or even accuse you of not trying. Only you can really determine what you're actually capable of, though.

I myself have had the experience of wondering why a person doesn't do this or that, and then realizing later that there was a completely legitimate reason. So maybe when others expect you to do more than you feel you can, it's really just that they don't have all of the information they need to judge your efforts.

If you want to keep the job, then I think it's a very good idea to ask your employer about the accommodations you mentioned. Employers accommodate people all the time for less important reasons. When my husband's employer first hired him, they had a rule that everyone works some Saturdays. But he said he was in a band and needed that day to be free, and after that they never scheduled him for Saturday, even though his band wasn't always working on that day.

I think I know exactly what you mean when you say that you really want to be there, but at the same time you dread it! I've had that same feeling soooo many times. Not just with work, but friend/family gatherings, and even things like school.

Yes, if it's making you sick half the time, it probably is worth re-evaluating what you're doing. Compare it to drinking alcohol. Maybe you really love beer, and you really want beer, but half the time you drink beer you end up sick to death, you might want to change that behavior some way, so that you don't get sick. "Near beer", maybe.

Is there such a thing as "near employment"? I guess not really. But you can still ask for the accommodations and see if it helps at all before quitting outright. It's worth the try. You've been there three years, so it's not your job performance. You must be capable of the job duties, or they would have let you go at three or six months.

As far as the social aspect, and noise and other things that exhaust you, I wish I had some good advice, but I have the same struggles, and my only solution so far has been to withdraw as much as I can. Which means I am left with the part where I "want" to be involved, and I feel bad about that, then.

I am trying now to remind myself that socializing is just like anything that people are interested in. Things like hobbies, or sports. Some people really value and enjoy doing origami. If you talk to them, they might try to convince you to try it. But if I tried it, and didn't like it for some reason, I wouldn't feel bad about not doing it. And it's not like there's anything wrong with origami, or the people who love it.

So socializing is now like a hobby I don't really care about for me. I know other people really like it and get a lot out of it, but it causes me mostly extreme anxiety and stress. I don't care if other people want to socialize with each other, there's nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't mean that I will like it. The only reason I've been feeling bad for not being involved, is because the people who enjoy socializing are completely convinced how wonderful and important it is.

But I'm making my own judgment that for me, it's not wonderful or important. It's actually pretty awful, and usually backfires.

I know that not everyone would want to withdraw, but I've had decades to try interacting with people, and I'm pretty confident that this is healthier for me.

You have to evaluate your own distress, and try to decide what might work for you. Maybe you could explain to your colleagues exactly what causes you the most stress with socializing, and suggest ways they might be able to also accommodate your needs. I've more than once had people ask me not to do or say something because it troubles them, and I really don't mind and try very hard to remember. I'm sure most people wouldn't mind helping you out in that way. Like for example if you knew that face to face impromptu meetings are causing you anxiety, maybe you could just ask if those kinds of things could happen in an email; so there's less immediate pressure on you, or something. I know it's a little harder to ask your co-workers to accommodate you than it is your employer, but I think most people will respect your request, especially since you've been employed there for so long.

Maybe it's worth a try?



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17 Nov 2017, 7:43 pm

dragonsanddemons wrote:
Yes, I get this all the time, and it drives me absolutely bonkers. In my case, it's because my functioning level varies, so people see me at my best and assume I'm always capable of that. For example, they'll see me being sociable for an hour or two, but what they don't know is that I then spend the next few days recovering from the intense socialization, barely able to say a word.

I have had this, too. I can be convincing at times if I have had extensive preparation. I know where I am going, how to get there, what I'm doing, for how long, who (roughly) will be there, what they will expect from me, I know it will only be for a certain space of time and then I will be able to leave, I have answers prepared for some of the weirder aspects of my behaviour (like wearing the medical alert bracelet that has "may be nonverbal" on it, so if I can't speak correctly I can just indicate that and people will understand what is going on), I have worked out my appearance to look normal and not too much one way or another and appropriate for the circumstances, etc. A normal, everyday social encounter which a normal adult would give no thought has been mapped down to its atomic anatomy by me.
Also what I think many people don't understand about autism is many autistic people's abilities are uneven. I always describe this as knowing perfectly well what to do, but being unable to DO that.
I once did a work trial in fast food which was a perfect example of this - I could have described the procedures of that job in painstaking detail. It was not difficult. But to actually physically do that was impossible for me, even though I knew what to do and understood the tasks perfectly.
I get that unevenness a lot. I KNOW how to do things, and could describe the process for doing so flawlessly, but I cannot actually carry out the action cohesively and do it in real time. That's why working is do damn difficult. It's frustrating knowing exactly what you have to do, but being unable to do so because you can't coordinate everything and there is too much sensory interruption and your brain fries when you try doing all these things at once.
Understanding things, even quite sophisticated and complex concepts, philosophies or even practical procedures, is not the same as inherently having the ability to carry out related tasks.


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