What is so great about Trump and the Right?

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Kraichgauer
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05 Dec 2017, 12:53 am

Marknis wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't know, also Trump finally got his tax bill passed which means more tax breaks for the wealthy at the expense of the average tax paying citizen, that doesn't seem like a good thing but I am sure some of his supporters are cheering him on while he screws them over to.


I just find it so odd that rednecks voted him in when they hate New York as well as think rich people are "city slickers". I guess him claiming that he is a Christian gives him honorary redneck status.


I suppose he got that status because he said everything they believe: white people are getting screwed over by minorities and immigrants (both legal and illegal), hating LGBT Americans, hating science, hating so called elites (anyone who isn't a redneck) by praising the common working man... and oh, lest I forget, a very loveless view of a demanding, judgmental God.


What's even odder is that rednecks don't even like other white ethnic groups. My mother told me rednecks really hated Cajuns and remembers seeing Cajun only drinking fountains when she was younger. I also read that redneck schools abused Cajun children for speaking French. My father, stepfather, and grandfather also never tire of making jokes about French people. :roll:


I've read that because so many rednecks are Scots-Irish (or Anglo-Celtic as many of them describe themselves), they see themselves as the only true Americans, and regard other white Americans as foreign. Is that true?


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EzraS
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05 Dec 2017, 3:02 am

"Rednecks" kinda comes off as just another bigoted stereotype. "My parents told me this and that about "rednecks"".



Marknis
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05 Dec 2017, 3:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't know, also Trump finally got his tax bill passed which means more tax breaks for the wealthy at the expense of the average tax paying citizen, that doesn't seem like a good thing but I am sure some of his supporters are cheering him on while he screws them over to.


I just find it so odd that rednecks voted him in when they hate New York as well as think rich people are "city slickers". I guess him claiming that he is a Christian gives him honorary redneck status.


I suppose he got that status because he said everything they believe: white people are getting screwed over by minorities and immigrants (both legal and illegal), hating LGBT Americans, hating science, hating so called elites (anyone who isn't a redneck) by praising the common working man... and oh, lest I forget, a very loveless view of a demanding, judgmental God.


What's even odder is that rednecks don't even like other white ethnic groups. My mother told me rednecks really hated Cajuns and remembers seeing Cajun only drinking fountains when she was younger. I also read that redneck schools abused Cajun children for speaking French. My father, stepfather, and grandfather also never tire of making jokes about French people. :roll:


I've read that because so many rednecks are Scots-Irish (or Anglo-Celtic as many of them describe themselves), they see themselves as the only true Americans, and regard other white Americans as foreign. Is that true?


Yes but they don't use the right term. They are more likely to call themselves "Cawcashun" despite how that term is really for those who are actually from the Caucasus mountain regions such as Armenians, Georgians, Iranians, and Turkish people rather than being a catch-all term for all white ethnic groups. But they do indeed think they are the only real Americans.

EzraS wrote:
"Rednecks" kinda comes off as just another bigoted stereotype. "My parents told me this and that about "rednecks"".


I hate to break it to you but most rednecks actually carry the term with pride rather than get offended by it. My father is also a redneck and my mother has married two other redneck men in the last six years despite how she always complains about their stomach sizes.



Last edited by Marknis on 05 Dec 2017, 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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05 Dec 2017, 3:33 am

I wonder how many get included as "rednecks" that aren't. And what stigma they have to deal with. I mean what I gather is they're supposed to be uneducated and into inbreeding.



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05 Dec 2017, 12:39 pm

The right pushes for individual liberty, freedom and choices. The left pushes for collectivism. I think most people would prefer individual liberty so once they come to that realization they move to the right.



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05 Dec 2017, 1:52 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
'populism' just means a lot of people voting for something the establishment dislikes. Think that falls under democracy too....

I had a feeling no one was going to watch it but that's fine - it really just throw these things up in the off chance that someone finds something useful/interesting in it.

I really don't think its a useless term. It means that at ground level the system's hurting enough that people are getting stirred up by demagogues quite often and it means that the elites and technocrats are failing to some extent in their roles. Aside from factory-made activists most people don't get stirred up for the sake of it and there's always a good chance that the elites can float off to another planet and lose touch with the base of the pyramid. To call the 'populism' label a blanket dismissal though would be incorrect, it's a symptom of legitimate problems that people are reacting to whether they know how to express it or whether people expressing it for them are doing particularly well at it let alone have any good solutions.


I agree yeah and I will watch it. I just don't like that term, it's lazy. Especially when Blair keeps throwing it around.


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06 Dec 2017, 8:56 pm

We've got our own celebrity love island here, with our m.ps sharing each others purse strings and emptying the public civil purse of its true intent. So.. the discussion here, was.. stop housing refugees and making ourselves look smaller in the face of Theresa May.. who is trying hard to stick out negotiations whilst having threats made upon her life.
We all can remember the failed IRA bomb plot to dethatch Thatcher instead killing off someone else of her cabinet.

In the winds of change, I can safely say that the numbers have slowly decreased and fewer refugee families are seeking refuge here, it's just as well, I don't think the councils in England and Wales can afford any more high rise council homes.. when they can't even solve the aging population crisis.

I'm afraid its time to call it a day.. its just gotten so bad we don't even recognise the faces and mannerisms of our own people.. never mind the risks of stating a forgotten fact about migrants and just mentioning the word, makes the average civil servant look ridiculous!
No more economic or homeless refugees, the system is no longer a free for all.



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07 Dec 2017, 3:10 am

Empathy wrote:
I'm afraid its time to call it a day.. its just gotten so bad we don't even recognise the faces and mannerisms of our own people


:lol: :lol: :lol:

You only can't if you are one of them Daily Mail reading, hysterical, drama Queens.



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07 Dec 2017, 12:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't know, also Trump finally got his tax bill passed which means more tax breaks for the wealthy at the expense of the average tax paying citizen, that doesn't seem like a good thing but I am sure some of his supporters are cheering him on while he screws them over to.


I just find it so odd that rednecks voted him in when they hate New York as well as think rich people are "city slickers". I guess him claiming that he is a Christian gives him honorary redneck status.


I suppose he got that status because he said everything they believe: white people are getting screwed over by minorities and immigrants (both legal and illegal), hating LGBT Americans, hating science, hating so called elites (anyone who isn't a redneck) by praising the common working man... and oh, lest I forget, a very loveless view of a demanding, judgmental God.


What's even odder is that rednecks don't even like other white ethnic groups. My mother told me rednecks really hated Cajuns and remembers seeing Cajun only drinking fountains when she was younger. I also read that redneck schools abused Cajun children for speaking French. My father, stepfather, and grandfather also never tire of making jokes about French people. :roll:


I've read that because so many rednecks are Scots-Irish (or Anglo-Celtic as many of them describe themselves), they see themselves as the only true Americans, and regard other white Americans as foreign. Is that true?

No.
I'm mostly Scotch-Irish.Never heard that,and I also had friends from Grand Isle/Houma area that spoke Cajun French.Taught me how to cook Gumbo and crawdads.Most people that are not from the South would lump them as rednecks.Called themselves "Coonasses" and were proud of it.


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Last edited by Misslizard on 07 Dec 2017, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Dec 2017, 12:49 pm

Say what you want about Trump, but he's doing his damndest to keep all his campaign promises.

His Jerusalem decision was very brave.



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07 Dec 2017, 8:08 pm

Once you've embraced public recall and stood up in the witness protection box, you can forget how hard it is to surrender your nationality and culture, through want of civil pride.
The fact some members are using bankers as their cover up for the migrant famine crisis is 'hysterical' as I suppose there is no third world debt for them to even pay back, but and I'm positive the two year ban on benefits will hold and prevent the likes of hierarchy states heralding the way from their anchor man statuses on the Get Farage Out committee. Do you remember that, Biscuit? as I do.
The yanks who say we think they are foreign to us, must have been yanked out of the Harvard trading School for National undergraduates and Crowd Pleasers. Go ahead, pretend to eat our junk food and hallmark Lindt, and keep the brand name of Cadburys for yourself, that was never yours and I doubt you'll buy out Belgium either. No, you need us for keeping your Pm sweet, and if he is still wondering how to discipline himself and curb down foreign hatred and migrant appeal, then Nancy Pelosi can whip him back to the Senate herself. I'm sure she's more than capable of bringing an old school republican to justice.



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14 Dec 2017, 11:25 pm

Bataar wrote:
The right pushes for individual liberty, freedom and choices.
Except for the religious right.
Bataar wrote:
The left pushes for collectivism.
Not all of them.


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14 Dec 2017, 11:43 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I noticed how a lot of people, Americans and Europeans, think Trump is the right thing. I would like to know why Trump is so good considering that he increases taxes for the poor, lowering for the rich and try destroying everything called Welfare.

I am a European, and I also noticed how alot of fellow europeans are going far-right and think this is THE greatest thing happening, to abolish everything called welfare and give everything to the military, the rich and lowering the burdens of the strongest while increasing the burdens on the weak.

Why is this so popular nowadays?

Why is leftwing policies (not communist, but leftwing) so unpopular and why is right wing policies so popular?

I bet most people are definitely not billionaires in the waiting, so why would poor people want lower taxes for the rich?

Aside from "keeping the rich tax payers on [insert country]'s soil" (avoid they would leave the country in question) there really is no arguments for lowering taxes for the rich. Not any moral/ethical reasons, that is. There are practical reasons, but no moral reasons.

Remember: The rich are rich on behalf of the poor! They would not become rich was it not for the working poor!

And why should average people have to the "wage-slaves" for the employers in order to get anything to eat?

True leftwingers would have the solution ready: Give EVERYONE without a job a unconditional Basic Income that is equivalent to the minimum wage of 40 hours work a week, but without requirement of work! This would give ordinary, average people the TRUE freedom to live their OWN lives. Not only the rich, but the poor as well would be free!

It would also force the employers to give higher salaries to those who work, because everyone would in theory just stay home. And employment conditions would improve a lot, for the same reason.

Now, such a policy ought to be popular, but it isn't. And I cannot understand why, because MOST people are ordinary, low-wage employees. Would you not want TRUE freedom? Would you not want money without requirements, without any conditions other than you have no other income?

If your answer to above questions is "no", why wouldn't you?

Exploit the rich.
Give to the sick and poor.
Avoid forced labor including military service!

THIS is the HEAVEN on Earth!

But most people wouldn't want heaven on earth... they'd choose hell!

Without bashing or personal attacks, please explain to me why you would not want the rich to be forced to hand you money to live for, unconditionally?

I am so sick and tired of the Employers Organizations that if I expressed my real opinions on what to do about them, I would recieve a permanent ban on any forum.


The last time I checked, it was the big corporations that you hate so much giving people jobs. This whole rich vs. poor crap is class warfare, and the only thing it succeeds in doing is pit one group of people against another, which is precisely what the ruling elite wants, as it makes it easier for them to control the people. It's the whole divide and conquer thing. Can you honestly tell me that you'd rather live in a country where people hate each other? What you're suggesting should happen is called socialism, and never in the history of the world has this system succeeded.


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15 Dec 2017, 1:08 am

MidnightMoon wrote:
What you're suggesting should happen is called socialism, and never in the history of the world has this system succeeded.

Except when it did; like in the US during a period which correspond roughly between the 40s/80s: unless of course you consider that period to not have been socialism, but then you should not call "socialist" anyone who call for rising the tax of the rich and helping the poor. Turn out that when the rich have too much money, they don't invest it, they are hoarding it; and when you give the poor money, they are able to use it in smart ways that are good for the economy.



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15 Dec 2017, 5:38 am

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I noticed how a lot of people, Americans and Europeans, think Trump is the right thing. I would like to know why Trump is so good considering that he increases taxes for the poor, lowering for the rich and try destroying everything called Welfare.

I am a European, and I also noticed how alot of fellow europeans are going far-right and think this is THE greatest thing happening, to abolish everything called welfare and give everything to the military, the rich and lowering the burdens of the strongest while increasing the burdens on the weak.

Why is this so popular nowadays?

Why is leftwing policies (not communist, but leftwing) so unpopular and why is right wing policies so popular?

I bet most people are definitely not billionaires in the waiting, so why would poor people want lower taxes for the rich?

Aside from "keeping the rich tax payers on [insert country]'s soil" (avoid they would leave the country in question) there really is no arguments for lowering taxes for the rich. Not any moral/ethical reasons, that is. There are practical reasons, but no moral reasons.

Remember: The rich are rich on behalf of the poor! They would not become rich was it not for the working poor!

And why should average people have to the "wage-slaves" for the employers in order to get anything to eat?

True leftwingers would have the solution ready: Give EVERYONE without a job a unconditional Basic Income that is equivalent to the minimum wage of 40 hours work a week, but without requirement of work! This would give ordinary, average people the TRUE freedom to live their OWN lives. Not only the rich, but the poor as well would be free!

It would also force the employers to give higher salaries to those who work, because everyone would in theory just stay home. And employment conditions would improve a lot, for the same reason.

Now, such a policy ought to be popular, but it isn't. And I cannot understand why, because MOST people are ordinary, low-wage employees. Would you not want TRUE freedom? Would you not want money without requirements, without any conditions other than you have no other income?

If your answer to above questions is "no", why wouldn't you?

Exploit the rich.
Give to the sick and poor.
Avoid forced labor including military service!

THIS is the HEAVEN on Earth!

But most people wouldn't want heaven on earth... they'd choose hell!

Without bashing or personal attacks, please explain to me why you would not want the rich to be forced to hand you money to live for, unconditionally?

I am so sick and tired of the Employers Organizations that if I expressed my real opinions on what to do about them, I would recieve a permanent ban on any forum.


I'll number my responses in correspondence to each of your paragraphs.

1. Most people don't support Trump on a personal level -- America and Europe. Personally, I support him as our President, acknowledging him that much respect just as I did the previous POTUS, Obama (as much as I didn't like him).

2. The European right and American right differ quite a bit, as I've discovered from my conversations with Europeans and partly from some of the time I spent living in Germany. The American right, is individualist: pro-liberty. The European right, from what I've come to understand, is anything right of democratic socialism. My perception comes from a philosophical viewpoint, one should note this. It's absurd that you think the American right has been wanting to increase taxes on the poor -- the working poor in America, the class my family has belonged to for generations, is very much right-wing outside of the cities. Also, not even American GOP wants to get rid of welfare completely, rather, they want to reform it to prevent abuse and re-integrate people on welfare back into contributing to society.

3. It's not that popular -- mainstream media is definitely left-wing biased, school curriculum has a political agenda (especially in higher education); but, perhaps the resurgence in American right-wing ideologies comes in reaction to being tired of having leftist agenda forced upon us, which is why generation Z is said to be the most conservative generation in America for a very long time.

4. Left-wing policies are very popular and very alive in the world as a whole. I often argue that the collectivists won the ideological part of the Cold War -- the USSR may have fallen, but their set of ideas have become more popular than ever before.

5. In America, the working poor want lower taxes across the board. Lower, middle, and upper class. Why would anyone want to increase financial burden on their employers -- do you believe it would help employees if their employers can't afford to pay them? Small businesses are hurt the most by increases on taxes on "the rich" (which is most often small business owners, middle class, and lower 1% which makes well less than one million USD).

5.5 (this is supposed to be 6, but I just noticed I missed a paragraph)
For one, it's immoral to think you have a right to another's property and labor. You're talking wealth redistribution which is just that. Slavery. Also, economics -- the economy doesn't work by hurting innovators. Also, you should note that the largest businesses, the ones most connected with the government, support collectivism knowing that they will benefit. Wall Street, for example, has supported left-wing candidates from the Democratic Party in America. Alphabet Inc. is notoriously left-wing, and it's one of the world's largest conglomerates (they own Google, YouTube, etc). So, you do not have the moral high ground on this one by any means. The ones defending everyone's rights to life, liberty, and property, can hold higher moral ground in that they want equal treatment before the law for all.

6. The poor wouldn't have those jobs if it weren't for the innovation of the people that became wealthy. Sure, there are wealthy people that inherit and that's becoming more frequent as competition is stifled by big government regulations and favoritism/cronyism; but, in the end, many of these wealthy people worked hard, such as that of Bill Gates, of whom founded a company that now employs over a hundred thousand people. We, the poor and middle classes, do work for these companies and represent it and contribute to it, but without their innovation or their drive or motivation, that company would not exist and therefore those jobs not exist. Reminder: this is from an American perspective. We're not like Germany in which every company is hand-in-hand with the government, though we are heading down that road with the growth of our government.

7. My response for this would go into economics, as to why we have currency. That is a very long subject to cover, but in short: it's better to use cash as a commodity for trade than to barter. Also, people need to work to contribute to society -- society wouldn't exist without work. Without work, crops are not sown, goods aren't distributed, tools aren't created, services aren't offered -- we work jobs so that we have something to give to each other in a system of voluntary exchange.

8. That's flat out serfdom and borderline slavery. To say you have a right to another's labor is to say they are your slave. Also, there is no freedom when people are being dictated as to how much they can produce. Did you know Venezuela has been doing that under their Bolivarian regime? They killed their own industry, and left themselves with a oil-reliant economy, in addition to a myriad of other problems (I wish I had my two papers that were in regards to the Venezuelan economy).

9. Because I value true freedom: I do not wish to enslave others. I also understand economics and appreciate the importance of economics as well as our natural rights to life, liberty, and property.

10. It's not popular because it doesn't work and has failed every time it was implemented historically. In addition, I can say it's immoral -- there are many that oppose it for both reasons given.

11. Employment conditions do not improve when you take away more of their money. Instead, they are forced to make budget cuts or collapse. This puts more strain on the employees and employers. I forgot to mention, welfare entitlements do make people want to stay home and not go to work. Having non-competitive wages makes people want to slack off since hard work is not recognized, there is no incentive to be successful. This is clearly reflected in the Soviet Union, for example, or Venezuela, Greece, etc.

12. I've probably lost count, so my numbers might not properly correspond -- I reply at 4 in the morning, CST, without any sleep. Anyways, this post will cover the remainder of your post: it's not true freedom, and I don't support it because I don't support serfdom or slavery. I don't support stealing from people because they're doing better than I am. I am grateful for what I have and find joy in family, and not in material objects.

You have a lot to learn in life, a LOT. I don't mean any offense in this statement or anything I've written above.
Please read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell (5th Edition is the latest, I believe). If I can drag myself through works of Marxist philosophy, and a certain other collectivist philosophy, then you can drag yourself through an economics book. :D

Best of luck.

Regards,
Hyeokgeose


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15 Dec 2017, 11:42 am

Left wing, right wing... both attached to the same shitty bird.

Vote 3rd party.