Deceit in Japan and a failed Australian cover up

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Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2017, 11:27 pm

cyberdad wrote:
The Germans achieved dominance at the turn of the 20th century despite joining colonisation quite late.
In order to "catch up" the Germans and the Belgians brutalised their African colonial subjects (to extract their pound of flesh) in a manner not seen before...

It would seem the Germans conducted the world's first state sanctioned (i.e. where paper work was involved) genocide of native people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_an ... a_genocide

What made my jaw drop is they also organised the world's first concentration camps designed to exterminate women and children!! they collected the body parts of dead women and children to use for research and developed the first journals to publish what would become scientific racism

quite horrifically methodical and obviously predates Nazism


I'm know that's true. But I hardly think that characterizes most Germans today.


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09 Dec 2017, 1:02 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Germans achieved dominance at the turn of the 20th century despite joining colonisation quite late.
In order to "catch up" the Germans and the Belgians brutalised their African colonial subjects (to extract their pound of flesh) in a manner not seen before...

It would seem the Germans conducted the world's first state sanctioned (i.e. where paper work was involved) genocide of native people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_an ... a_genocide

What made my jaw drop is they also organised the world's first concentration camps designed to exterminate women and children!! they collected the body parts of dead women and children to use for research and developed the first journals to publish what would become scientific racism

quite horrifically methodical and obviously predates Nazism


I'm know that's true. But I hardly think that characterizes most Germans today.


Let's hope so...



Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2017, 3:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Germans achieved dominance at the turn of the 20th century despite joining colonisation quite late.
In order to "catch up" the Germans and the Belgians brutalised their African colonial subjects (to extract their pound of flesh) in a manner not seen before...

It would seem the Germans conducted the world's first state sanctioned (i.e. where paper work was involved) genocide of native people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_an ... a_genocide

What made my jaw drop is they also organised the world's first concentration camps designed to exterminate women and children!! they collected the body parts of dead women and children to use for research and developed the first journals to publish what would become scientific racism

quite horrifically methodical and obviously predates Nazism


I'm know that's true. But I hardly think that characterizes most Germans today.


Let's hope so...


I think so, most certainly.


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Lintar
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09 Dec 2017, 6:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Japs have been researching different versions of whale and dolphin Sushi for years so technically they are correct

Nothing like good o'l self-centered east Asian cultural demands overriding common morality

Oh wait!! well even the harbingers of environmental responsibility aren't immune to a bit of whale blubber
http://time.com/4370478/norway-whaling-report/


Just to let you know, while "Jap" might be acceptable in Australia, in other places it's considered an offensive racial slur.


What makes you think we even care about "other places"? In other fun facts about Australia:
1. We have a very popular brand of cheese called "Coon".
2. We used to have (back in the 70's) sweets that were called "Fags", and they were in the form of little cigarettes and were aimed at children.
3. We also had back then a red, sticky sweet that was called "Redskins", and it had a picture of an Indian on the wrapper.
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".


But in a civil society, one does have to take another's feelings into account.


Actually, no. In a civil society, people recognise the inevitability of "causing offense", due to the fact that A) viewpoints will differ, B) freedom of expression is valued, censorship is discouraged, and C) the purely subjective nature of what it means to be offended.



Lintar
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09 Dec 2017, 6:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".

If you are the one in a position to make nasty comments against others then yeah! life was sweet...

I suppose many Germans miss the "fun" of the late 1930s as well...


Seriously? You're comparing being a little bit politically incorrect to the persecution that minorities experienced in Nazi Germany? There is NO comparison that can be made. This is ridiculous, and you know it.



Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2017, 6:48 pm

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Japs have been researching different versions of whale and dolphin Sushi for years so technically they are correct

Nothing like good o'l self-centered east Asian cultural demands overriding common morality

Oh wait!! well even the harbingers of environmental responsibility aren't immune to a bit of whale blubber
http://time.com/4370478/norway-whaling-report/


Just to let you know, while "Jap" might be acceptable in Australia, in other places it's considered an offensive racial slur.


What makes you think we even care about "other places"? In other fun facts about Australia:
1. We have a very popular brand of cheese called "Coon".
2. We used to have (back in the 70's) sweets that were called "Fags", and they were in the form of little cigarettes and were aimed at children.
3. We also had back then a red, sticky sweet that was called "Redskins", and it had a picture of an Indian on the wrapper.
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".


But in a civil society, one does have to take another's feelings into account.


Actually, no. In a civil society, people recognise the inevitability of "causing offense", due to the fact that A) viewpoints will differ, B) freedom of expression is valued, censorship is discouraged, and C) the purely subjective nature of what it means to be offended.


You can of course disagree with one another in a polite, civil society, but you don't have to be rude or hurtful about it.


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cyberdad
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09 Dec 2017, 7:35 pm

Lintar wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".

If you are the one in a position to make nasty comments against others then yeah! life was sweet...

I suppose many Germans miss the "fun" of the late 1930s as well...


Seriously? You're comparing being a little bit politically incorrect to the persecution that minorities experienced in Nazi Germany? There is NO comparison that can be made. This is ridiculous, and you know it.

Obama doesn't think so
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/lea ... 34d3aeb468



Lintar
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09 Dec 2017, 7:56 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Japs have been researching different versions of whale and dolphin Sushi for years so technically they are correct

Nothing like good o'l self-centered east Asian cultural demands overriding common morality

Oh wait!! well even the harbingers of environmental responsibility aren't immune to a bit of whale blubber
http://time.com/4370478/norway-whaling-report/


Just to let you know, while "Jap" might be acceptable in Australia, in other places it's considered an offensive racial slur.


What makes you think we even care about "other places"? In other fun facts about Australia:
1. We have a very popular brand of cheese called "Coon".
2. We used to have (back in the 70's) sweets that were called "Fags", and they were in the form of little cigarettes and were aimed at children.
3. We also had back then a red, sticky sweet that was called "Redskins", and it had a picture of an Indian on the wrapper.
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".


But in a civil society, one does have to take another's feelings into account.


Actually, no. In a civil society, people recognise the inevitability of "causing offense", due to the fact that A) viewpoints will differ, B) freedom of expression is valued, censorship is discouraged, and C) the purely subjective nature of what it means to be offended.


You can of course disagree with one another in a polite, civil society, but you don't have to be rude or hurtful about it.


Actually, I'm glad you made this comment, and do you know why? Because for most of my life, through no fault of my own, people have said that I am rude. I try - really hard - not to be, but it happens. A lot. It's an aspect of my "aspieness" that I have little control over. Most people, however, do not understand this, so when I make a comment, respond to someone else's comment, or just say anything at all, people usually end up being offended. I'm too honest and blunt, but that's the way I've always been, for I see no value whatsoever in pretending. I can't pretend, put on an act for the sake of avoiding offense; it just doesn't work. If I see a claim that I believe to be in any way wrong or faulty, I just have the irresistible urge to correct it. Most people just can't handle that (or the truth).

With all of these laws coming in designed to reduce the possibility of anyone ever being offended, it will eventually get to the stage where I will not be able to say anything at all. I will not - ever - accept this. We (supposedly) live in a free society, where there is diversity of opinion, but some people want to make it impossible for people like me to express an opinion. Isn't this discrimination?

If people don't want to be offended, then they should just grow a thicker skin. People like playing the victim card for some reason.



TheAP
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09 Dec 2017, 8:11 pm

That's not true that you won't be able to say anything at all. There are tons of things you can say that won't hurt anyone. And even if something you say hurts someone else, it doesn't mean you have to stop saying it completely, just maybe avoid saying it around that person.

People can't just "grow a thicker skin" just like that. It's like an unpleasant sensory experience - it's hard to learn to tolerate.



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09 Dec 2017, 8:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".

If you are the one in a position to make nasty comments against others then yeah! life was sweet...

I suppose many Germans miss the "fun" of the late 1930s as well...


I don't see what is so bad about considering peoples feelings and experiences when speaking. I mean sure everyone gets pissed off and is going to say mean things, and everyone is going to offend someone at some time or another...but the goal of expressing yourself shouldn't be to be as 'anti-politically correct and offensive as possible'. Just makes people sound like rage filled sadsacks without any real point.

I think the middle ground is better...maintaining basic respect for others while not walking on egg-shells, for fear of even irritating someone as if any offense whatsoever is going to make them shatter and also not going to the extreme of being offensive all the time no matter what for fear of even coming off slightly agreeable.

I mean like I can recall incidents where someone says something without really thinking that does sound really ignorant or even racist...and it would be possible to tell the person that and have them think about it. Wheras currently it seems you might confront someone in a situation like that and they'll get in your face to scream 'F*ck PC, I don't give a f*ck if its racist, what you offended f*ck you.' Perhaps not the best example there but its what I could think of.


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Sweetleaf
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09 Dec 2017, 8:37 pm

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Japs have been researching different versions of whale and dolphin Sushi for years so technically they are correct

Nothing like good o'l self-centered east Asian cultural demands overriding common morality

Oh wait!! well even the harbingers of environmental responsibility aren't immune to a bit of whale blubber
http://time.com/4370478/norway-whaling-report/


Just to let you know, while "Jap" might be acceptable in Australia, in other places it's considered an offensive racial slur.


What makes you think we even care about "other places"? In other fun facts about Australia:
1. We have a very popular brand of cheese called "Coon".
2. We used to have (back in the 70's) sweets that were called "Fags", and they were in the form of little cigarettes and were aimed at children.
3. We also had back then a red, sticky sweet that was called "Redskins", and it had a picture of an Indian on the wrapper.
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".


But in a civil society, one does have to take another's feelings into account.


Actually, no. In a civil society, people recognise the inevitability of "causing offense", due to the fact that A) viewpoints will differ, B) freedom of expression is valued, censorship is discouraged, and C) the purely subjective nature of what it means to be offended.


You can of course disagree with one another in a polite, civil society, but you don't have to be rude or hurtful about it.


Actually, I'm glad you made this comment, and do you know why? Because for most of my life, through no fault of my own, people have said that I am rude. I try - really hard - not to be, but it happens. A lot. It's an aspect of my "aspieness" that I have little control over. Most people, however, do not understand this, so when I make a comment, respond to someone else's comment, or just say anything at all, people usually end up being offended. I'm too honest and blunt, but that's the way I've always been, for I see no value whatsoever in pretending. I can't pretend, put on an act for the sake of avoiding offense; it just doesn't work. If I see a claim that I believe to be in any way wrong or faulty, I just have the irresistible urge to correct it. Most people just can't handle that (or the truth).

With all of these laws coming in designed to reduce the possibility of anyone ever being offended, it will eventually get to the stage where I will not be able to say anything at all. I will not - ever - accept this. We (supposedly) live in a free society, where there is diversity of opinion, but some people want to make it impossible for people like me to express an opinion. Isn't this discrimination?

If people don't want to be offended, then they should just grow a thicker skin. People like playing the victim card for some reason.


What laws are you talking about? Neo nazis and KKK are allowed to organize and hold marches promoting white supremacy for f*cks sake....so what are these laws being passed that will make it impossible for someone like you to ever express your opinion? I mean there may be some political groups trying to restrict freedom of speech drastically but as far as I know nothing like that is at risk of actually being put into law.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2017, 8:41 pm

Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The Japs have been researching different versions of whale and dolphin Sushi for years so technically they are correct

Nothing like good o'l self-centered east Asian cultural demands overriding common morality

Oh wait!! well even the harbingers of environmental responsibility aren't immune to a bit of whale blubber
http://time.com/4370478/norway-whaling-report/


Just to let you know, while "Jap" might be acceptable in Australia, in other places it's considered an offensive racial slur.


What makes you think we even care about "other places"? In other fun facts about Australia:
1. We have a very popular brand of cheese called "Coon".
2. We used to have (back in the 70's) sweets that were called "Fags", and they were in the form of little cigarettes and were aimed at children.
3. We also had back then a red, sticky sweet that was called "Redskins", and it had a picture of an Indian on the wrapper.
I really miss the 20th century. There was none of this politically correct BS back then. Life was free, one could say what one liked without having to worry about anyone's precious "feelings".


But in a civil society, one does have to take another's feelings into account.


Actually, no. In a civil society, people recognise the inevitability of "causing offense", due to the fact that A) viewpoints will differ, B) freedom of expression is valued, censorship is discouraged, and C) the purely subjective nature of what it means to be offended.


You can of course disagree with one another in a polite, civil society, but you don't have to be rude or hurtful about it.


Actually, I'm glad you made this comment, and do you know why? Because for most of my life, through no fault of my own, people have said that I am rude. I try - really hard - not to be, but it happens. A lot. It's an aspect of my "aspieness" that I have little control over. Most people, however, do not understand this, so when I make a comment, respond to someone else's comment, or just say anything at all, people usually end up being offended. I'm too honest and blunt, but that's the way I've always been, for I see no value whatsoever in pretending. I can't pretend, put on an act for the sake of avoiding offense; it just doesn't work. If I see a claim that I believe to be in any way wrong or faulty, I just have the irresistible urge to correct it. Most people just can't handle that (or the truth).

With all of these laws coming in designed to reduce the possibility of anyone ever being offended, it will eventually get to the stage where I will not be able to say anything at all. I will not - ever - accept this. We (supposedly) live in a free society, where there is diversity of opinion, but some people want to make it impossible for people like me to express an opinion. Isn't this discrimination?

If people don't want to be offended, then they should just grow a thicker skin. People like playing the victim card for some reason.


I have never advocated for laws penalizing free speech, nor will I ever. I only think people need to practice a little responsibility with regard to the feelings of others.
As one who has lived with constant criticism for perceived "inappropriate behavior" due to my Asperger's, I can sympathize and empathize with your plight.


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cyberdad
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09 Dec 2017, 9:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Wheras currently it seems you might confront someone in a situation like that and they'll get in your face to scream 'F*ck PC, I don't give a f*ck if its racist, what you offended f*ck you.' Perhaps not the best example there but its what I could think of.

we live in an "age of enlightenment" however rather than be educated - people who vote Trump just seem to be "angry white men"...(and women)



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09 Dec 2017, 9:17 pm

Lintar wrote:
If people don't want to be offended, then they should just grow a thicker skin. People like playing the victim card for some reason.

This might be easier for "old blokes" like us Lintar but there are too many young people committing suicide or getting depression because of bullying and ostracism



naturalplastic
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09 Dec 2017, 9:57 pm

Lintar

You don't have the excuse of being too young to remember the twentieth century.

So why did you say "I wish I lived in the twentieth century when you were free to say anything" when you know full well that that statement is patently untrue of any era in the 20 century?

The fact is that speech was less free and the taboos against free speech were enforced by actual laws, and not just social pressure in the first half of the 20 century. Lucy and Ricki, and Bob and Laura, had to sleep in twin beds on TV.

There was a gradually decrease in puritanical taboos in the mid twentieth century, but a concurrent rise in other taboos that are now called "PC". But overall folks were at least as stuck up about speech fifty years ago as now.

So my question is this.

Did you make that statement about this nonexistent 20th century that you long for out of (1)deliberate dishonesty, or (2) out of stupidity?

That's a real question.

Which is it?

Are you a liar? Or are you just an idiot?



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09 Dec 2017, 10:26 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The fact is that speech was less free and the taboos against free speech were enforced by actual laws...
...So my question is this.
Did you make that statement about this nonexistent 20th century that you long for out of (1)deliberate dishonesty, or (2) out of stupidity?


We have a consitutional law here in Australia labelled 18C that prohibits free speech if it's intention is to hurt/vilify an individual or group. Lintar is saying that fear of 18C makes people anxious about what they say in public so he yearns for the old days before 18C when Australians could say what they like without fear of punitive action.